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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elf Witch" data-source="post: 6075661" data-attributes="member: 9037">I noticed that and I am giving up especially now since I am reduced to trying to read all this on my phone and post from it. Teeny tiny little buttons are hard when you have fingernails and bad eyesight. You misunderstood me I am glad that there are caps unlike in AD&D when spells just kept going up in power. Personally I think there should be caps on spells period and they should not gain in power as they mage levels. I only played 4E for a short time before I we gave up because not one of us liked much about it. But having read this and other forums I have noticed a huge change on the way the DM is viewed by a lot of players. In the days of the 80s and early 90s the game was viewed as the DMs he made the world he made the houserules he had the final say on how a thing was going to be done. The joke used to be the DM is god. Now that seems to upset a lot of players who feel that the DM should have to follow the same rules as the players and DM fiat is a bad word. There is a lack of trust in the DM and feel that the only way to control the DM is by more rules governing every possible action that can happen in a game. I have never understood why any would play with a DM they didn't trust.Recently in my game we had a new player for awhile a young man in his early 20s. There were a lot of times he drove me crazy over the rules. For example in my game a lot of holy places from the old times have shields around them. Their headquarters the abandon temple of Bahmut has one, only the absolutely faithful can enter and they have to have the ring of Bahmut that each of my original players has to pass. They can brings others through but only they can walk through safely. This player would not accept that dispel magic would not work on this shield. I finally got fed up arguing with him and explained that the shield was powered by the power of a god and it would take a caster of epic levels to break it. That or a very special spell that I invented for this game to deal with the shields and that spell was a divine not arcane spell. The player sent me a long email accusing me of cheating and how DMs were not supposed to break the rules that we were only referees so we should not be able to do things outside the rules without players approval. and that I was rail roading  his character because he didn't have a ring yet. I talked to my other players and they were just blown away by the whole thing. The reason he did not have a ring yet was his choice. To receive the ring of Bahmut you must pledge your life to his cause.  The player who knew head of time what this game was about didn't want to do that he thought he would have more fun being a free agent. All fine and good but I did explain that he would not be able to enter the temple on his own that one of the others would have to escort him in. Now we have been playing this game for months before he came in and he was the first player who didn't take the pledge. Yet I was the one rail roading his character. My mistake was allowing this in the first place. When we started the game I told my players to make characters that would answer the call to Bahmut, that was one restriction along with no evil or chaotic neutral PCs, to  have a character who has a reason to answer this call. He also had an issue with the fact that there are places in the world where magic does not work deadzones where some of the worst magical fighting took place as well the limitations that the wizard guilds put on sorcerers and the dangers an active warlock or psionist face if caught using their magic. To me all of this was in my perview of being the DM. He didn't see it that way. You don't need a wizard to get through a stone magical locked door how about a cleric to stone shape the wall to have an opening or how about a bard or a rogue with use magic device or a fighter dwarf using their knowledge of stone cutting to find any flaws to break the door down. As other have said there are ways. If I am DMing without a rogue and I know that there will be a lot of locked doors because that just makes more sense then I usually throw in a wand of knock if I don't want to spend time on this aspect of the game.You can harp on this point as much as you like but we have played in many a game without a cleric and made do with potions and natural slow healing. I am guessing you play 4E and you like the healing surges but I don't play 4E and I dislike the entire concept of healing surges. The point is we rarely have a 15 minute day because we don't play that way because it does not make any kind of tactical sense to allow the enemy to dig in and fortified their potion. The reason why we will retreat and find a place to rest and heal early is a simple one because if we don't we are all going to die because the melee types are low on hit points. You are changing the goal posts on the 15 workday it always been about wizards going nova and using up all their spells now you are including clerics in that as well. I would think any party that is low on hit points without access to any kind of healing including healing surges would retreat to lick their wounds. You are right you can shrink the mirror and use a spell everyday to carry it with you. If this is an important tactic to the party they will find away. But unless their enemies don't have the same access to the same resources then as a tactic it shouldn't work every single time and if it does like I said this is not the fault of the spell but of a DM who does not know how or does not counter the party abilities because he has bought into the myth that some how that is unfair. Scry can be a fun spell and scry and fry should be allowed sometimes because it is a fun tactic but like anything their should be certain consequences for spying on your enemy or anyone else. A rogue invisible sneaking around spying is in danger of getting caught and punished so then should a wizard or druid using scry to spy. I hate this entire idea that because a spell can be misused and there are DMs out there not willing to step in and stop the misuse then lets just stop having the ability to it at all.</blockquote>

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