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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What would you say is the biggest problem with Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and other "Tier 1" Spellcasters?
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<blockquote data-quote="stevelabny" data-source="post: 6075730" data-attributes="member: 9298"><p>Well I was looking at his spell choices, which was going to take TIME. But I replied to the part I thought was most telling first. I suppose I could have said "I'll respond to the other bit later." but I didn't so good going jumping at me within an hour when it took almost a day for me to get my response. And now that he said he's not going to reply to me anymore, I guess I won't really bother unless he changes his mind. Because apparently its ok to keep sidetracking discussions by harping on off-hand comments. I hope I don't misspell anything, we'll be here all day. </p><p></p><p>But taking a quick look, I don't see anything helping armor class or saves beyond size-changing, so I see one more wizard who is counting on successful scrying, successful stealth to range, winning initiative, and failed saves. IF anything gets within 5 feet of him ever, he's probably dead. </p><p></p><p>I am unclear on how Silent Image keeps someone hidden from a sleeping dragon, or how exactly you're attacking through Solid Fog (most of the cloud-spells are great for escaping/delaying a fight, but not always helpful in WINNNG a fight). I find it hysterical that the spell list includes Alarm, but you want to attack a sleeping dragon who would have no such defenses? Invisibility is laser-awesome when it comes with some way to move silently. How's that move silently check holding up wizard of high intelligence cuz I know you're maxing out spellcraft, concentration, and at least 3 knowledge skills) And I hope the dragon doesn't have scent (Off hand I don't even know if an MM1 dragon can get scent and I'm not looking it up.) </p><p></p><p>princess scenario - you scry the princess. she's in the dark, she's a prisoner. If you have darkvision...she's in a 10x10 stone room with one door. There's a large chamberpot in one corner, and a flat wooden tray with some gruel on it. You have a 50% chance of Messaging her and finding out she knows nothing other than one of her captors is a male. As a DM I'll be nice and say there's a 5% chance that in the 10 minutes you're scrying, its possible for someone to open the door. Some scruffy looking nerfherder, presumably a flunky, opens the door and says something you can't hear. Still have no idea where to send Prying Eyes. Even if the princess could identify the sound of the waves on the shore or the local belltower... you've narrowed down the location but in a windowless room it will be nigh-impossible for Eyes to seek her out. Scrying and Prying Eyes aren't some be all end all. Taking out guards with Ghost Sound / Silent Image? That might work on one or two patrols...BUT you also run the risk of them sounding the alarm. You brought your wand of knock, great job. But the bad guy knows about knock and some of the doors have multiple locks or maybe guards are told to stand directly in front of doors and not move. Or maybe there's a portcullis (oops!) . And the base., like a normal building has 8-10 foot high ceilings..fly is pretty much useless. </p><p></p><p>Same thing with Prying Eyes in the enemy base. Even if they partially map the base for you, some of them are probably getting seen and destroyed. When you invisibility into the base (or the princess's prison above) anytime you stop to attack something, you break invisibility. There's the rogue/barbarian catch them with a will save... oh noes! it was the sorcerer in disguise and he makes his save. </p><p></p><p>Just as prepared as a caster thinks they are, that's how prepared the enemies can be also. Terrain is an actual thing, that will affect effectiveness of spells like fly, or provide all sorts of line of sight issues. Casters get a HUGE advantage if encounters start at a distance of 150 feet. There is rarely a reason for that to happen.</p><p></p><p>And since I failed in not responding, I might as well ask a bonus question, if you cast cloudkill outside on some monsters and it rolls 1000 feet away from you over the next 10 minutes and the next morning you find some dead merchant commoners on the road, and now everywhere you walk you here "stop right there, criminal scum" is the DM being a schmuck?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevelabny, post: 6075730, member: 9298"] Well I was looking at his spell choices, which was going to take TIME. But I replied to the part I thought was most telling first. I suppose I could have said "I'll respond to the other bit later." but I didn't so good going jumping at me within an hour when it took almost a day for me to get my response. And now that he said he's not going to reply to me anymore, I guess I won't really bother unless he changes his mind. Because apparently its ok to keep sidetracking discussions by harping on off-hand comments. I hope I don't misspell anything, we'll be here all day. But taking a quick look, I don't see anything helping armor class or saves beyond size-changing, so I see one more wizard who is counting on successful scrying, successful stealth to range, winning initiative, and failed saves. IF anything gets within 5 feet of him ever, he's probably dead. I am unclear on how Silent Image keeps someone hidden from a sleeping dragon, or how exactly you're attacking through Solid Fog (most of the cloud-spells are great for escaping/delaying a fight, but not always helpful in WINNNG a fight). I find it hysterical that the spell list includes Alarm, but you want to attack a sleeping dragon who would have no such defenses? Invisibility is laser-awesome when it comes with some way to move silently. How's that move silently check holding up wizard of high intelligence cuz I know you're maxing out spellcraft, concentration, and at least 3 knowledge skills) And I hope the dragon doesn't have scent (Off hand I don't even know if an MM1 dragon can get scent and I'm not looking it up.) princess scenario - you scry the princess. she's in the dark, she's a prisoner. If you have darkvision...she's in a 10x10 stone room with one door. There's a large chamberpot in one corner, and a flat wooden tray with some gruel on it. You have a 50% chance of Messaging her and finding out she knows nothing other than one of her captors is a male. As a DM I'll be nice and say there's a 5% chance that in the 10 minutes you're scrying, its possible for someone to open the door. Some scruffy looking nerfherder, presumably a flunky, opens the door and says something you can't hear. Still have no idea where to send Prying Eyes. Even if the princess could identify the sound of the waves on the shore or the local belltower... you've narrowed down the location but in a windowless room it will be nigh-impossible for Eyes to seek her out. Scrying and Prying Eyes aren't some be all end all. Taking out guards with Ghost Sound / Silent Image? That might work on one or two patrols...BUT you also run the risk of them sounding the alarm. You brought your wand of knock, great job. But the bad guy knows about knock and some of the doors have multiple locks or maybe guards are told to stand directly in front of doors and not move. Or maybe there's a portcullis (oops!) . And the base., like a normal building has 8-10 foot high ceilings..fly is pretty much useless. Same thing with Prying Eyes in the enemy base. Even if they partially map the base for you, some of them are probably getting seen and destroyed. When you invisibility into the base (or the princess's prison above) anytime you stop to attack something, you break invisibility. There's the rogue/barbarian catch them with a will save... oh noes! it was the sorcerer in disguise and he makes his save. Just as prepared as a caster thinks they are, that's how prepared the enemies can be also. Terrain is an actual thing, that will affect effectiveness of spells like fly, or provide all sorts of line of sight issues. Casters get a HUGE advantage if encounters start at a distance of 150 feet. There is rarely a reason for that to happen. And since I failed in not responding, I might as well ask a bonus question, if you cast cloudkill outside on some monsters and it rolls 1000 feet away from you over the next 10 minutes and the next morning you find some dead merchant commoners on the road, and now everywhere you walk you here "stop right there, criminal scum" is the DM being a schmuck? [/QUOTE]
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What would you say is the biggest problem with Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and other "Tier 1" Spellcasters?
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