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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6075843" data-attributes="member: 87792">Why wouldn't divine casters invest in Scribe Scroll?&nbsp; If you aren't going adventuring it is the single most useful feat a first level caster can have.&nbsp; I mean what are you going to get?&nbsp; Toughness? Weapon Focus?Take your strawman away please.&nbsp; I'm not one of these &quot;Rope tricks shouldn't be followed&quot; people.&nbsp; 8 hours of rest in a dungeon assuming someone has a clue where you are should be suicidal.Ah, you're going for the Single Upgraded Weapon approach.&nbsp; In which case treasure is all generic and all goes into a communal pot.&nbsp; At this point the question becomes &quot;Is it better for the party to support the wizard and cleric's casting with 6000 GP worth of consumables, or to give the fighter +1 to hit and damage?&quot;&nbsp; I'll go with the scrolls.No.&nbsp; It's 7 or 8 out of the 20.&nbsp; Which is why I didn't.&nbsp; Conjuration's a damn good school, but not quite that good to specialise in unless you can get a few more spells which, under any normal game of 3.X that goes anywhere near the DMG advice you can.&nbsp; Lots of locks is just obnoxious for the user.&nbsp; It's like these stupid password rules that end up with the password written down on a post it note beside the computer.&nbsp; Of course if some bright spark were to invent the &quot;Triple lock&quot; - three locks opened with a single turn of the key (thus requiring two castings of Knock) I wouldn't see this as remotely a bad thing.&nbsp; Of course the fact that as far as I am aware no 3.X supplement did this ever indicates things about the vision of the designers.Alternatively taking out the guards is done with Ghost Sound and Silent Image.&nbsp; Or using Fly to get past them.&nbsp; If they won't leave their post for distractions, and there's a decent setup, the rogue's absolutely stuffed (other than by bluffing).Most don't.&nbsp; I see no way this is out of line with a standard 3.X world.&nbsp; It's simply that the ones that don't adventure gain levels very slowly.It's not easy to gain levels with such a career choice.&nbsp; It's simply that non-adventuring wizards often die in their beds of old age.&nbsp; If we say it takes a human wizard who doesn't adventure five years to gain a level (and an elf much longer) we still don't have a problem.I don't think they are - I think that's B.T.'s claim.&nbsp; I think that one of the reasons 4e is far and away the best version of D&amp;D is because it's the one that does match fictional characters pretty well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6075843, member: 87792"] Why [I]wouldn't[/I] divine casters invest in Scribe Scroll? If you aren't going adventuring it is the single most useful feat a first level caster can have. I mean what are you going to get? Toughness? Weapon Focus? Take your strawman away please. I'm not one of these "Rope tricks shouldn't be followed" people. 8 hours of rest in a dungeon assuming someone has a clue where you are should be suicidal. Ah, you're going for the Single Upgraded Weapon approach. In which case treasure is all generic and all goes into a communal pot. At this point the question becomes "Is it better for the party to support the wizard and cleric's casting with 6000 GP worth of consumables, or to give the fighter +1 to hit and damage?" I'll go with the scrolls. No. It's 7 or 8 out of the 20. Which is why I [I]didn't[/I]. Conjuration's a damn good school, but not [I]quite[/I] that good to specialise in unless you can get a [I]few[/I] more spells which, under any normal game of 3.X that goes anywhere near the DMG advice you can. Lots of locks is just obnoxious for the user. It's like these stupid password rules that end up with the password written down on a post it note beside the computer. Of course if some bright spark were to invent the "Triple lock" - three locks opened with a single turn of the key (thus requiring two castings of Knock) I wouldn't see this as remotely a bad thing. Of course the fact that as far as I am aware no 3.X supplement did this [I]ever[/I] indicates things about the vision of the designers. Alternatively taking out the guards is done with [I]Ghost Sound[/I] and [I]Silent Image[/I]. Or using [I]Fly[/I] to get past them. If they won't leave their post for distractions, and there's a decent setup, the rogue's absolutely stuffed (other than by bluffing). Most don't. I see no way this is out of line with a standard 3.X world. It's simply that the ones that don't adventure gain levels [I]very[/I] slowly. It's not easy to gain levels with such a career choice. It's simply that non-adventuring wizards often die in their beds of old age. If we say it takes a human wizard who doesn't adventure five years to gain a level (and an elf much longer) we still don't have a problem. I don't think they are - I think that's B.T.'s claim. I think that one of the reasons 4e is far and away the best version of D&D is because it's the one that [I]does[/I] match fictional characters pretty well. [/QUOTE]

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