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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6076232" data-attributes="member: 6681948">I'm talking about human behaviour.  Humans do no always make optimal choices.  They jaywalk and get hit by a bus rather than walk to the streetlight.  They "invest" in get rich quick schemes and get burned.  [We recently had a tax court case stemming from a lawyer's money lost in a "we have a box of money in the Ivory Coast and need your help to get it back" email scam.]  They cut corners.  They get lazy and they get sloppy.  Having every wizard operate under reams of SOP is a poor reflection of the source material, and the human condition.Spellcraft, for starters.  That bumps up the Caster Level of items I can reliably create by 3.  Magical Aptitude tacks on another 2.  Of course, if I have a natural aptitude, then I would be a "gifted pupil" ripe for hire by that old Master Wizard churning out items, so if Magical Aptitude is a natural, away I go.  Aren't those Metamagic feats handy in crafting items that reflect Metamagic usage?  And, of course, I need all those Item Creation feats just so I can make more pricy items.I do not concur that PC's are "the A Team".  With all these magic items floating around for sale, there are far more powerful spellcrafters out there. And these universal precautions suggested as taken by wizards are also inconvenient and bypassable.There are lots.  And if one views adventuring as a business, the partners should have a pretty well developed means of profit distribution.  Of course, the business would likely have competitors, so if you don't pay the fighter well enough, he may change firms.  The bottom line is that few groups will end up with a model where everything is spent on the Wizard.A level 7 scroll costs 2,275 gp.  How many settlements make each and every L7 spell available as a scroll?  How many L13 wizards dioes that imply are in existence?  Merchants aren't going to cater to their every whim.  THEY ARE MERCHANTS with different wares! I submit the rules for gaining xp from sources other than adventuring are not needed because the game presumes adventurers.  Not a lot of demand for Papers and Paycheques.  But they must be able to gain xp - even small settlements can have scrolls for sale created by L13+ casters.  If it takes 60 years (5 years per level after 1st) to achieve 13th level, then these guys are well into their 80's (L7 spells), 90s (L8) or past the century mark (L9).  Where are all these ancient wizards coming from?  WalMart?To me, scrolls are the logical "spell trading" commodity.  I don't have to let you see my spellbook, and EVERY wizard can scribe them.Who says non-adventurers only gain xp if they are in physical danger?  Like many things in the game world, the xp system is an abstraction.  A wizard does not have a new spell pop into his head because he sent in enough orc toes to qualify.Let's se...DC of Armor (as an example) is 10 + AC bonus, so 18 for Plate.  An exotic melee weapon is the same.  Masterwork is 20.  We can likely assume artisan tools for a +2 bonus, so we need a further +8 to take 10 on masterwork items.  That means 4 levels above first (less with INT above 10 or feats to ehnance the skills), so mid-40's.  Since Masterwork items are available in any thorpe (Masterwork Metal Shield costs what, 65 gp?  Way less than a L2 scroll), these guys are pretty much everywhere, or they're fast (another +10 to offset the DC bump for speedier crafting).But not nearly as old as those Wizards! If no one ever casts one, who buys them to create such a ready market?  And how many people live into their 80's, 90's, hundred's and don't retire?  Surely these guys must make enough on their scrolls that they don't have to work themselves into old age.  Remember, you make very little comparatively from Craft and Profession, and those individuals will retire some day.Then why are there so many on the market?  There are very few copies of Action Comics #1 available in decent reading conditions.  How do scrolls weather so much better?It takes them the same amount of time as the human teammate for a Ranger Elf to take his second level as Wizard.  The ages are a conceit, another item where it is best not to pull back the curtain too far.  No, I presume that some will be.  I also presume we follow the elements of the adventurers' career that challenge them, and not every minor item that happens during the day.  That's why we don't play out shopping trips, for example.With wizards in every thorpe, why would they not have spellcasters on board?How about them?  If there's only one encounter of note to be had, then 15 minutes is the same as 15 days - you have plenty of time to replenish afterwards.  Most adventures tend towards multiple encounters. Every freaking thorpe has mid to high level spell scrolls, but kobolds, orcs and goblins are cut off from such knowledge?Adventures will vary - not every one has opposition that has this level of organization.  But not every one can be presumed to lack the wit to deal with spellcasters, especially in a world where magic is a commodity - this pretty universal.So you attack the ogre lair.  Do other ogres not hear you attack the first batch and come see what's going on?  They move faster than humans, so following you isn't that big a stretch (doing it quietly is - I doubt you get to rest before the other ogres attack).  Trolls have the Track feat, so tracking you to the rope trick is practical.  Are they lead by a Troll Hunter?  If so, expect something waiting when you come out of that Rope Trick.  CR5 = you don't have rope trick when facing a typical Troll encounter.  Ogres are CR 3.But sure, if you run a game where most opponents are ignorant of magic, spellcasters gain an advantage.  Just like a game featuring a lot of Giants is good for Power Attack, where games with lots of incorporeal undead (or just higher AC/lower hp monsters at the same CR as the giant types) make power attack a better deal.</blockquote>

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