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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6076689" data-attributes="member: 17106">Maybe, but I don't think one player needs to be able to effectively play anything close to the full range. It simply needs to enable the characters that the particular player is interested in and suited for.For example, (American) football posits a number of roles. If I'm a 6'8", 350 lb. giant, not all of those roles are for me. I might play offense or I might play defense, but I'm definitely on the line somewhere. Conversely, if I'm a 5'8", 160 lb. dynamo, I'm probably a scatback or a return guy; quarterback is out of my league.Similarly, in D&D, if I'm someone who likes to spend hours poring over books and preparing an optimal strategy, I'm probably a wizard, maybe a cleric, conceivably a rogue, and probably not a barbarian. If I'm someone who wants to plug and play but still be effective, I'm probably not playing a Vancian spellcaster, more likely a fighter or rogue or maybe a (3e) warlock. If I'm the passive, type B sort, I might play a cleric and focus on healing, or I might play a rogue, but I'm not trying to summon angels.In none of those cases do I have any expectation that any iteration of D&D would be able to match all players with all possible characters, nor do I understand the origin or the value of said expectation.Sure. If you're starting from scratch and making an rpg, none of those things are given. If you're playing D&D, I think they pretty much are. D&D posits the arcane (quasi-science)/divine magic distinction, magic that can take you to different planes of existence, raise the dead, or grant wishes, and a player's handbook where all of the above are presented as achievable character abilities.I think that's true enough (and forms the basis of many 4e criticisms).Yep. Sure.Really? Seems to me those characters dictate just as much, (though it isn't as obvious, perhaps).If the DM simply allows you to sit around for the three months or whatever and simply do that without having any enemies come attack the castle, some noble try to claim it, or some event distract the characters, I'd agree it wouldn't feel earned. To make it a working castle, you probably need a variety of things that Make Whole does't provide, such as people, resources, and magical defenses. However, if the characters did overcome some complications, I'd argue that it is earned. It's also worth noting that the character apparently spent months tied to a location and using spell slots in this example, and have probably wasted a lot of adventuring time.That said, it's a fantasy world, and it's full of castles. Most of them are probably owned by nobles, most of whom are probably not above level 8. At level 8, you're already well past the level that most NPCs (or PCs) will ever achieve, and you have access to abilities that make you start to feel meaningfully better than the common man. That's why E6 is a popular cutoff point; past that is a meaningful transition. To me, if your campaign allows for a stronghold, you ought to have a decent one at around this time.</blockquote>

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