D&D 5E () What would you want for 5e Birthright?

Faolyn

(she/her)
My point is that I see next to zero potential in Cerilia, whether commercial, inspiration-wise or other.

I do see potential in the triple ideas of bloodlines, awnsheg and domains.
I could see them doing it like they did Ravenloft: a few pages on each of the countries, tips on making your own, tips on making awnshegh as well as statting out the existing ones, and a heavy focus on the domain/country/mass warfare aspects of it
 

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CapnZapp

Legend
Perhaps, but, like Tonguez said upthread, I'd really like to see a campaign setting that is a more subdued European fantasy, which more traditional/mythical/folkloric representation of races/lineages/heritages/peoples. Whether or not Birthright is that setting, I'd still like to see it. Dolmenwood looks like it will scratch part of that itch, but not the full thing.

Same here. I feel that, among other things, the concept and in-world implications of awnshegh would be far too diluted in a world where magic and the extra planar/meta-humans are as commonplace as in Forgotten Realms or Eberron.

Feel free to wish for new settings.

My point, however, is to not do so in conjunction with wishing for a new Birthright.

1) the setting was the weakest point of Birthright (imo)
2) the setting is arguably not even the point of Birthright, the domain layer (including heroes and awnshegn as their rulers) is

and last but not least

3) WotC will never commit to a new setting that isn't Forgotten Realms anyway (except as stand-alone supplements that aren't then supported going forward)

So, again, nothing wrong with asking for new settings. But that wish should not automatically be intertwined with the desire for a new Birthright

As I see it, making Birthright an overlay on top of Forgotten Realms gives the greatest chance of making it last, and become truly integrated into WotCs core lineup
 

Perhaps, but, like Tonguez said upthread, I'd really like to see a campaign setting that is a more subdued European fantasy, which more traditional/mythical/folkloric representation of races/lineages/heritages/peoples. Whether or not Birthright is that setting, I'd still like to see it. Dolmenwood looks like it will scratch part of that itch, but not the full thing.
The thing is: you can already do that with the current rules; just don't use everything.

Do we really want to buy books that say what not to use and don't add anything?
 


cfmcdonald

Explorer
The thing is: you can already do that with the current rules; just don't use everything.

Do we really want to buy books that say what not to use and don't add anything?
Absolutely. Curation is a valuable service. There was a very popular programming book called "JavaScript: The good parts."
 

cfmcdonald

Explorer
Feel free to wish for new settings.

My point, however, is to not do so in conjunction with wishing for a new Birthright.

1) the setting was the weakest point of Birthright (imo)
2) the setting is arguably not even the point of Birthright, the domain layer (including heroes and awnshegn as their rulers) is

and last but not least

3) WotC will never commit to a new setting that isn't Forgotten Realms anyway (except as stand-alone supplements that aren't then supported going forward)

So, again, nothing wrong with asking for new settings. But that wish should not automatically be intertwined with the desire for a new Birthright

As I see it, making Birthright an overlay on top of Forgotten Realms gives the greatest chance of making it last, and become truly integrated into WotCs core lineup
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I agree with you that birthright has little commercial value now, but disagree on the rest. I think birthright is the best setting ever released for d&d, setting aside the domain rules game.

FR with domain rules would not in an to meaningful sense be birthright.
 

TheSword

Legend
Yeah, the birthright setting was awesome. Sidhe elves, rare dragons, orog kingdoms underground, great monsters, kings and barons. Scheming prelates and mysterious wizards. It’s a great setting, with a very different feel to any other I’ve seen. It’s reminiscent of two great series Witcher and Game of Thrones. I’d love to see them bring it back to life.
 


CapnZapp

Legend
Yeah, the birthright setting was awesome. Sidhe elves, rare dragons, orog kingdoms underground, great monsters, kings and barons. Scheming prelates and mysterious wizards. It’s a great setting, with a very different feel to any other I’ve seen. It’s reminiscent of two great series Witcher and Game of Thrones. I’d love to see them bring it back to life.
Most of this awesomeness is due to the domain layer and it's bloodline heroes and awnshegn.

Again decoupling the core ideas of Birthright from the forgotten (and frankly forgettable) setting of Cerilia is, in my opinion, the only path to re-commercializing Birthright.

A Birthright layer could be a success, especially if the example world used is FR.
 

TheSword

Legend
Most of this awesomeness is due to the domain layer and it's bloodline heroes and awnshegn.

Again decoupling the core ideas of Birthright from the forgotten (and frankly forgettable) setting of Cerilia is, in my opinion, the only path to re-commercializing Birthright.

A Birthright layer could be a success, especially if the example world used is FR.
Yeah you mentioned that before. I offered a counterpoint.

The politics and power groups are very different to that of the Forgotten Realms. Forgotten realms seems to be made up of largely static countries that are all vastly different to each other. They don’t feel part of any great whole and usually any war stories are framed as evil imperialist aggressor vs good farmers.

It was refreshing to have a campaign setting that saw ambition for the throne as a good thing. I like Cerilia a lot for the reasons I gave. It’s ok for you to not like it. In my opinion Birthright without the setting isn’t Birthright.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Yeah, but the "vanilla"-ness and generic historicity is, I think, why people did not adventure in Cerilia. It's 10% HarnWorld, which is way too much for most fantasy gamers. ;)

The not feeling part of a great whole is precisely why Forgotten Realms succeeded.

The setting might be great to set up a domain layer but this forgets how a settings first and foremost purpose must be to get players adventuring there.

As written Birthright's setting was too focused on bloodline heroes vs awnsheg. There just was no point in "regular" adventuring, which doomed the setting.

My idea is to take what's neat about Birthright and leave the not-fantastic-enough bits behind.

I'm not saying you can't like Birthright for what it was. I am discussing how a future (successful) Birthright might look like.

My point is that to succeed, Birthright needs to focus on its strengths. I believe making Birthright a layer you can add on top of any campaign world is the way to go. Obviously (at least in the 2020s) Forgotten Realms will then be the official adaptation in the hypothetical campaign book, but there should be rules and guidelines to create your own domain map on top of your own continents.

You could even use it on top of good(?) old Cerilia...
 

TheSword

Legend
Yeah, but the "vanilla"-ness and generic historicity is, I think, why people did not adventure in Cerilia. It's 10% HarnWorld, which is way too much for most fantasy gamers. ;)

The not feeling part of a great whole is precisely why Forgotten Realms succeeded.

The setting might be great to set up a domain layer but this forgets how a settings first and foremost purpose must be to get players adventuring there.

As written Birthright's setting was too focused on bloodline heroes vs awnsheg. There just was no point in "regular" adventuring, which doomed the setting.

My idea is to take what's neat about Birthright and leave the not-fantastic-enough bits behind.

I'm not saying you can't like Birthright for what it was. I am discussing how a future (successful) Birthright might look like.

My point is that to succeed, Birthright needs to focus on its strengths. I believe making Birthright a layer you can add on top of any campaign world is the way to go. Obviously (at least in the 2020s) Forgotten Realms will then be the official adaptation in the hypothetical campaign book, but there should be rules and guidelines to create your own domain map on top of your own continents.

You could even use it on top of good(?) old Cerilia...
For that to work though you need domains. Unfortunately there isn’t anywhere near as much inter realm conflict in FR. Countries are geared up as good guys… Waterdeep, the Dales, Cormyr etc and bad guys The Moonsea, Lydian, Sembia. They also tend to be squared off against each other pretty squarely with maybe a little nuance thrown in. Not much. Sure there is some grey here or there, but not a lot, and not much that leads to conflict or war. Hence the PC kingdom building part of the realms in 3e being confined to a little known, little used corner of the map.

To my mind, kingdom building realm rules need a location where that makes logical sense. Like Kingmaker needed the River Kingdoms.
 

deganawida

Adventurer
1) the setting was the weakest point of Birthright (imo)
2) the setting is arguably not even the point of Birthright, the domain layer (including heroes and awnshegn as their rulers) is

Oddly enough, though I initially purchased Birthright for the domain layer, I found it to be the weakest part of Birthright overall, and my discovered that I really wanted to adventure in Anuire, Brechtur, the Khinasi lands, and fight various awnsheglien.
 

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