What's a good fantasy mapping program?

[Alzrius]

I want to thank everyone who's replied so far; you've given me some great advice - and great links! - to chew on. As it stands now, I'm re-evaluating what I'm willing to put into map-making versus what I'll get out of it, and trying to re-assess what the best course of action is from there.

One further question I had, though, was about GIMP and Xara. I've never heard of these before, and know virtually nothing about them. From what I'm hearing, they sound like the best materials for making the highest-quality maps...but from what I'm reading, it sounds like these rely on drawings that you make yourself and then scan into the program (or perhaps it uses a tablet)?

Is that the case? I mean, are these programs where you actually hand-draw the map first and then use these programs to manipulate an upload of the image?

I ask because hand-drawing is a deal-breaker for me. I have no artistic ability where drawing (or any other kind of visual-imagery creation) is concerned. None. Zero. It's not hyperbole for me to say that I have to struggle to draw stick figures on a good day; it's a literal statement (not to get too deep into my issues with drawing, but the general consensus from people who know me is that I never learned how to hold a pencil right - that is, what feels comfortable in my grasp is not conducive to actual use; hence why my handwriting is so bad).

With that in mind, are GIMP and/or Xara (or any other program mentioned here) ruled right out for me?

 

[possum]

Well, with GIMP there was a set on these boards made a couple of years ago that had a pretty good hex template as well as common hexes to use as your "paint brush". That method's not that bad and you can make some pretty decent looking hex maps with it. I sadly do not have the link on me, however.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=8461]Alzrius[/MENTION]
GIMP, Xara, and Photoshop don't create images for you (e.g. from a template), they rely on user created or imported images. Which are more easily done on a tablet or via scan, but can be done entirely within the program with a bit of work.

Thing is, the only reason to get into map-making is because you enjoy it, not because your past maps werent working for you. You're looking at a big time commitment to learn the software, create your designs, assemble a template/resource library, and actually create the map. So unless you've got map-maker fever (which it doesn't sound like you do), I'd suggest an alternative.

Something like www.pymapper.com (a tile based program) might meet your needs. Or WotC's online dungeon tile mapper.

SkeletonKey Games and several other PDF publishers sell nice maps online - while they can be hit or miss, you may find just what you're looking for. W you print to letter format you've got to cut the edges off every single page and possibly stick them altogether somehow. Not hard, but something to factor in.

And then there's buying battlemaps from PAIZO or out of print WotC products.

I work in architectural design and did the same thing as [MENTION=85870]innerdude[/MENTION] , picking up CC3 figuring since it was CAD based I'd learn it quickly. Three years later and I barely touch it, using GIMP or Photoshop for map-making.

 

[gamerprinter]

One further question I had, though, was about GIMP and Xara. I've never heard of these before, and know virtually nothing about them. From what I'm hearing, they sound like the best materials for making the highest-quality maps...but from what I'm reading, it sounds like these rely on drawings that you make yourself and then scan into the program (or perhaps it uses a tablet)?

No most people create the maps from scratch within the program itself. There is no need to draw/create something then scan and import, that is just my preferred workflow. Most people create maps exclusively in the program they are using and import nothing but map objects.

Here's a Xara created map without importing anything other than photo textures of ground material used as area fills.

 

[WizarDru]

My experience has been that there is no one single program that will meet the criteria you have, but some will do some tasks well. There are issues, depending on what you want to do. First off, the recommendation of Cartographer's Guild is Spot On. There are a lot of really nice maps there, though you'll find far more geography maps than dungeon layouts. If you're looking for tactical maps, you won't find as many as you might like, but you will find plenty of city maps and world maps.

Like you, I don't possess a lot of artistic talent...and more importantly I have little desire to spend hours on maps for the game. I don't need them to be on the level of a published module, necessarily....but I want something nicer than just some pre-rendered tiles and a hand-drawn map.

I tried Dundjinni back in the day and it had a decent interface but lacked so many features that it wasn't really useful to me. I haven't tried some of the others. I settled on Campaign Cartographer 3. The extensions of Dungeon Designer and City Designer have been very useful for me. As kitsune9 mentions, the Joe Sweeney youtube videos are a fantastic help in making the program usable, something the developer knows as they've hired him for some content generation. CC3 is powerful and flexible, but NOT intuitive. You have to learn how to use a CAD program and there's no way around that.

However, the best value for CC3 is to subscribe to the Annual (and buy the older ones). It releases new tools and styles, one a month...and some of them are super useful. Many of them recreate styles of well-known game designer mappers or famous cartographers (such as John Speed) and sometimes they provide just cool stuff, like the pirate ship tutorial, a premade inn dungeon map and tools for buliding your own battlemaps for 4E.

You can see some of the maps I've made for my campaign in this thread. Making these maps usually took between 30 minutes to 2 hours, depending on details.

One nice feature of using a layered CAD program is the ability to customize versions of your maps. I often make a 'player version' of some maps and then a 'DM version', with some stuff on a layer that I hide before exporting it and giving it to the PCs.

 

[InkwellIdeas]

Allow me to schill for my Hexographer and Dungeonographer programs. I believe they have different audiences than a dedicated drawing program (like GIMP or Photoshop) or some of the higher-end (for lack of a better term) dedicated mapping programs like Campaign Cartogragpher. And of course, there is the camp that prefers hand drawn.

Anyway both Hexographer and Dungeonographer have free versions that just hold back a few "power user" features. Both sit on top of Java, so it runs on most computers but occasionally there is a hiccup.

Hexographer is for outdoor areas and is best for a continent or state level area, but can do larger and smaller areas as well. You can quickly get a map like the 80's gazetteer style maps or like the 1st Ed. World of Greyhawk map. (For the latter google greyhawk and hexographer in one search for a tutorial. Here's the 24-page pdf manual.

Dungeonographer is for dungeons/caverns and building interiors. You can switch the grid between squares and hexes or turn it off. You can also switch the art between a line art and a battlemat art set style. (Using a left sidebar radio button.) I've just added a few features that make it a very simple virtual table top. And this is a 5 minute tutorial that goes over the basics as it details the new features. And this is the 20-page pdf manual.

Intuitive Interface - I really can't stress this one enough. How easy the program is to use is very important.

My 5 year old (turns 6 tomorrow, but anyway) she can use it... and she taught it to my 3 year old. (The 3 year old's maps are mostly volcanoes, but she does use it.)

Details - While I know that no program can necessarily have all of the mapping details that everyone would want, more is always better. Does it have icons for doors, windows, torches, tables, treasure chests, and more? Will it show mountains, forests, roads, rivers, etc.? Are there (simple) ways to add more, whether by making them or buying add-ons?

Each comes with about 200 graphics. Hexographer has multiple styles of forests, mountains, cities, etc. Dungeonographer has a line art set of icons and a battlemat set. In the battlemat sets you have several chair options, tables, chairs, doors, a lit/unlit torch, etc.

You can import any PNG image and make it into a map item just like the others. I think it can accept JPG and GIF as well, but I don't remember for sure. You can even add an entire folder structure of icons in one step. (Note: the free version does cap you at 5 or 10 custom map items.)

Exporting - My main goal with this is that I can print off the maps I make (to US letter-sized paper, 8.5 x 11 inches). However, other kinds of exporting would be a nice bonus. Can I turn the map into a JPG or PDF? Or is it something that will live in a proprietary file format forever?

You save to a native format, but can always also export as a PNG image. You can print and the print should span multiple pages automatically. (You can essentially say to print at 1"/square or any fraction.) I have had reports of that not working properly that I'm fairly certain are due to Java's integration with certain print drivers. To get around this, one can print to a pdf and then print or export the map to an image and use the image viewer to print.

Squares and Hexes - The majority of the mapping I'm looking for is dungeon-mapping (scaled to print at square inch grids), which is done on a grid. However, hex mapping would also be nice for outdoor areas. As a bonus, it'd be nice to be able to remove the grid/hex lines if I want (and, as a bonus, to not have the mapping artificially restriced by grids and hexes - e.g. to have a lake mapped out so that it didn't have to conform to hex shapes).

As mentioned above Dungeonographer will do a square or hex grid or no grid. Hexographer does not have a square grid option, but you can turn the hex grid off.

Thanks for the chance to describe all of this!

 

[adamc]

Dungeonographer is java-based, unfortunately. There have been too many Java security issues in web browsers...

 

[DrunkonDuty]

I've also purchased and used CC3. And I've got say I wasn't happy with the product. It's got a steep learning curve and it just doesn't produce a final product that's professional quality in terms of resolution etc. Frankly if you're going to spend the sort of money CC3 costs just get Adobe. I also find Adobe to have a much more intuitive interface.

 

[trappedslider]

I may have missed it, but which of the mentioned programs is good t mapping a city? I'd like to finally make a map of crystalshore. My only issue is the program needs to be free due to my non existent budget.

 

[WizarDru]

I've also purchased and used CC3. And I've got say I wasn't happy with the product. It's got a steep learning curve and it just doesn't produce a final product that's professional quality in terms of resolution etc. Frankly if you're going to spend the sort of money CC3 costs just get Adobe. I also find Adobe to have a much more intuitive interface.

There's no question CC3 has a steep learning curve, but there are some very good tutorials available to get you going. Their annuals also come with lots of PDFs which walk you through reproducing many of the maps using their new styles. I have to disagree that you can't produce something in terms on professional quality: CC3 is and has been used in professional products for 15 years. From interactive atlases, novels, board games and RPG products. Most professionals (and many amateurs) don't just use CC3, of course...many start there and then use Adobe or GIMP to make further changes. But it's demonstrably wrong that it cannot produce a product of professional quality...it has for years. It's just often very difficult to pull that kind of material out of it without bypassing that learning curve.

My only issue is the program needs to be free due to my non existent budget.

That's a pretty big issue. I would recommend getting GIMP and then scanning the internet for appropriate clipart. And visiting the Cartographer's Guild.