What's Mystara's Hook?

rogueattorney

Adventurer
Calling Mystara "vanilla" is pretty strange. I can't imagine a more GONZO setting this side of Arduin.

Two gigantic warring empires, one with the "thousand 36th level wizards," giant air-ships, and mummies, the other with mounted air brigade, gladiators, and massive legions. Weirdo Teutonic crusaders, vikings, aztec orcs living in a hidden city surrounded by molten lava, elvish and dwarvish civil wars, hobbit pirates, eccentric immortal French wizards, dog people, spider people, an invisible moon inhabited by cat samurai, the Hollow world, an immortal from Earth's future obsessively reconstructing a nuclear reactor...

Mystara is a lot of things, but vanilla isn't one of them.
 

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Keldryn

Adventurer
I'd have to agree that Mystara doesn't really have much of a hook or overall theme to the setting, other than that it never seemed to take itself too seriously.

The "Known World" will always have a place in my heart, but I do think that a lot of my fondness for it is nostalgia. I started playing D&D in 1986 with the (Mentzer) Basic Set, and the Expert Set with X1 introduced "the D&D world" to me. B6 The Veiled Society and B10 Night's Dark Terror developed the culture and flavour of The Grand Duchy of Karameikos far beyond what was in the Expert Set. X1 The Isle of Dread, X4 Master of the Desert Nomads, X5 Temple of Death, X6 Quagmire, and X9 The Savage Coast developed the lands to the west of the countries on the Expert Set map. We then returned to those core nations for X10 Red Arrow, Black Shield which expanded upon those countries again and brought them all together for a full-scale war. CM1 Test of the Warlords introduced the northern land of Norwold and the Thyatis/Alphatia conflict, which set the stage for the rest of the CM and M series modules. I've read in other threads that Greyhawk was defined by its adventures, but I think that's even more true of Mystara; it was just a map with a short paragraph for each country until the adventures expanded upon it.

Even after switching to AD&D (1e, though it had been a gradual process of bringing more and more AD&D stuff over to the BECM rules), I still played in what would be known as Mystara as it felt like home to me and at that point the Gazetteer series was being published. I had the '83 World of Greyhawk set, but it seemed kind of bland to me in comparison. I eventually left Mystara behind around '88 in favour of the "grey box" Forgotten Realms set, as I was starting to really focus on things like internal consistency, which was never a strong point of The Known World. I grew to dislike the Realms after a while, but I do still really like the original presentation in that first grey box, when it left a lot to the imagination and didn't feel over-crowded. And eventually, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and Mystara (after the whole Gazetteer run) all felt too crowded to me, much like the Star Wars "Expanded Universe" became after hundreds of novels and comic books filled in gaps that I didn't think needed filling.

After the Forgotten Realms, the "core" nations of Mystara probably have the most detail published of any D&D campaign setting, which I suppose is a hook of sorts. I started a 3.5e game in Karameikos (which I still love as presented in B10 and GAZ1) a couple of years ago that never went beyond a session or two due to real-life stuff, but my sister was the only player who really got into the setting (since she grew up playing in that world as well). I've thought about re-imagining it for 4e, leaving out a lot of the stuff that I find silly or inconsistent, but I don't know it will ever really be appreciated by players who didn't first experience it with the Moldvay/Mentzer Basic and Expert rules in the 80s. The Grand Duchy of Karameikos, as presented in GAZ1, still makes a fantastic setting for a new campaign, but many of the lands around it don't really feel like they belong. I still like Glantri, Alfheim, Rockhome, and the Shires (more or less as they are presented in the Gazetteers), but too many of the other lands feel like unimaginatively placed Earth cultures dropped on the map without much thought as to how they interact with each other. I used to think that Greyhawk was bland, but I appreciate it more now; some of the lands of the Flanaess are obviously borrowed Earth cultures, but there is a lot more thought as to how these cultures developed and interacted with each other.

The Hollow World could be a hook, but I'd more or less moved on to the Realms by the time the Hollow World stuff was being published, and I never owned any of it. I rather dislike the GAZ style hex maps that many rave about though. The art style of the FR maps (as they got better each time it was re-published) were more to my liking.
 

JustKim

First Post
Valuing a setting with perceived commercial redundancy != badwrongfun.

Some fans seem to confuse what will drive the most sales for WOTC with what is objectively better for everyone in other ways as well. It's obviously not true, but this obvious point seemingly needs to be spelled out, because there seems to be a tendency to imply the contrary.
Badwrongfun is the silly, unadulterated fun of a party of anthropomorphic humanoids flying to the moon on an airship and befriending a village of intelligent flying squirrels. Because that's what Mystara was when we were ten years old.

I think you read too much into that comment. My point was that it was a great setting to be a goofball.
 

an_idol_mind

Explorer
Mystara is, in my opinion, the best representation of what a homebrew can become among published D&D settings. It started out as a map and a few notes and expanded to the point where it contains a vast number of different countries, cultures, and unique adventures. It had flying ships before they were cool, beast-headed humanoids, a continent-affecting magical curse, and empires of magic.

In terms of marketing, no, there probably is no solid hook. The appeal, in my mind, is the way it has expanded over the years. It's a demonstration of how to make your own campaign setting, in a way: start small and add as needed. The setting went from being very vague and vanilla D&D to something much more unique. Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and others developed similarly, but more through novels and less through gaming products.

As to Mystara's appeal as a 4th edition setting, I don't think it fits into the current WotC model of two books and an adventure. I also think that the Nentir Vale could eventually develop into a Mystara-like setting if given some attention. It's already got the core element of starting off small and expanding as adventures demand.
 

JustKim

First Post
Calling Mystara "vanilla" is pretty strange. I can't imagine a more GONZO setting this side of Arduin.

Two gigantic warring empires, one with the "thousand 36th level wizards," giant air-ships, and mummies, the other with mounted air brigade, gladiators, and massive legions. Weirdo Teutonic crusaders, vikings, aztec orcs living in a hidden city surrounded by molten lava, elvish and dwarvish civil wars, hobbit pirates, eccentric immortal French wizards, dog people, spider people, an invisible moon inhabited by cat samurai, the Hollow world, an immortal from Earth's future obsessively reconstructing a nuclear reactor...

Mystara is a lot of things, but vanilla isn't one of them.
You and I are the only people on EN World who get Mystara. ;)
 



Dragonhelm

Knight of Solamnia
Mystara is a hollow world with an internal sun. It has the Princess Ark, among other airships. It has the Red Curse, which can transform the unwarded into monsters.

<snip>

Its distant past is shaped by the technology of our distant future, which still exists in places, silent and still.

All of this I can get behind. If the focus is on skyships, and you have the Red Curse to function like spellscars or dragonmarks, then that sounds like the foundation for a good campaign to me.

The technology and immortals aspects could lend themselves to some good possibilities too.
 
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Remathilis

Legend
Calling Mystara "vanilla" is pretty strange. I can't imagine a more GONZO setting this side of Arduin.

Two gigantic warring empires, one with the "thousand 36th level wizards," giant air-ships, and mummies, the other with mounted air brigade, gladiators, and massive legions. Weirdo Teutonic crusaders, vikings, aztec orcs living in a hidden city surrounded by molten lava, elvish and dwarvish civil wars, hobbit pirates, eccentric immortal French wizards, dog people, spider people, an invisible moon inhabited by cat samurai, the Hollow world, an immortal from Earth's future obsessively reconstructing a nuclear reactor...

Mystara is a lot of things, but vanilla isn't one of them.

Don't forget Mystara's Mantra: "X (nation on Mystara) is like Y (real world culture) except with elves and magic."
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Mystara was one of the few settings I never purchased anything from. I liked the idea of a hollow world, but I never saw any other info on it to draw me in.

But some of the pro-Mystara posts here make me think I may have missed something. Perhaps I'll start looking in the used book stores.
 

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