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Message: <blockquote data-quote="strawbellebelle" data-source="post: 9163326" data-attributes="member: 7043248">In that case, you also have to factor in:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The limited number of Rages. Barbarians can only enter Rage a finite number of times, and only restore their uses on a Long Rest, as opposed to Discipline refilling on Short Rests.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The added vulnerability Reckless Attack inflicts on a Barbarian. Sure, they have resistance to physical damage while raging. Not all enemies attack with bludgeoning/piercing/slashing. They don't have any innate increased resistance to conditions that can trigger on hit. (Remember, anything that locks a Barbarian down for even a single turn breaks their Rage.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The increased survivability Monk has with features like Evasion and Disciplined Survivor (incidentally, to the kind of attacks a Barbarian is commonly vulnerable to).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Monk's ability to gain Advantage from other sources, as well as creatures' ability to negate the Advantage from Reckless Attack; you can't just assume the Barbarian always has Advantage and the Monk never does.</li> </ul>But let's just compare the base damage either class does, with only the most basic of their features:Level 1 Barbarian, d12 weapon, +3 mod, +2 Rage damage: 6-17 damageLevel 1 Monk, d6/d8 versatile weapon, d6 MA die, +3 mod, bonus strike: 8-20 damageLevel 5 Barbarian, now at +4 mod and two attacks: 14-36 damageLevel 5 Monk, now at +4 mod, two attacks, d8 MA die: 15-36 damageLevel 11 Barbarian, now at +5 mod and +3 Rage damage: 18-40 damageLevel 11 Monk, now at +5 mod and d10 MA die: 18-45 damageLevel 17 Barbarian, now at +4 Rage damage: 20-42 damageLevel 17 Monk, now at d12 MA die: 18-51 damageAnd of course, there are numerous factors that can tip this balance, those mentioned above and others. The Barbarian can be a more offensive beast, or can lean towards defense; the Monk can augment their damage output, or lean towards support; both based on choice of subclass. But I think the point stands that DPR and a class's relative strengths are in fact very hard things to truly nail down, because any good game of D&D has far too many factors at work for "math" and "theorycrafting" to ever paint a representative picture.(Edit: I'd also like to throw in the real answer to "Barbarian vs. Monk", which is "the Monk stuns the enemy and then the Barbarian auto-grapples and auto-prones the enemy so the entire party can wail on them". Also acceptable answers are "poison" and "prone via Open Hand".)</blockquote>

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