What's really at stake in the Edition Wars

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If I read you right, you seem to be claiming that the self validation occurs when people need to prove that their edition is somehow objectively better?

That's the surface level at which such debates are usually conducted, yes. It's not the proximate cause of whipping people into debate, though. Ironically, we aren't even talking about the time people invest into playing their game of choice - but about the time people have intested in defending it online on previous occasions.

Does that sound recursive? Because it absolutely is. Look at the post count of some of the usual suspects.
 

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I think it's a group identification thing. When a new edition reflects my tastes and desires, I feel like I'm part of the group. If sales figures for that edition are strong, I feel good because lots of people share my values; if the new edition wins awards, I feel like it's a validation of who I am. Contrariwise, if the new edition doesn't fit my preferences I feel shut out, and relish sales figures that imply that a retroclone of my preferred old edition is doing well, or that the new edition that usurped it is doing poorly.

Mind you, this is crazy talk, but it's not different than other kinds of fan identification (Mets fans feel bad when their team loses) and I'm not immune to it :)
 

I think Windjammer sums it up very nicely. It's got nothing to do with D&D per se and everything to do with the human urge to draw lines in the sand and defend them to the death. Edition changes are just the excuse. It's like that Emo Philips joke:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
"Well, there's so much to live for!"
"Like what?"
"Well... are you religious?"
He said yes. I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"
"Christian."
"Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
"Protestant."
"Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
"Baptist."
"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
"Baptist Church of God."
"Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God."
"Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915."
I said, "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.
Human beings like to claim their territory, then pick a fight with the guy in the next territory over. And the more you've fought for your territory in the past, the harder you'll fight for it in the future, because your brain figures, "If I've put so much into this, it must be valuable, so I can't afford to back down."

The Internet just provides a new venue, and I have to say I'd rather wage edition war on the Internet than holy war in real life.
 
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Wow

You know, I have a very hard time with assigning malicious intent to anyone arguing about the 4E/Pathfinder split.

4E made radical changes to the game, and was accompanied by some very heavy handed corporate manuevering that damaged a lot of smaller d20 companies who created good products. I think it's understandable to be passionate about either of these things if you think they were bad outcomes.

Of course, I'm one of those people. And for the record, if Pathfinder came about because the Paizo folks looked at these boards and concluded that there were enough unhappy people to support an alternative to 4E, well that would thrill me.

Ken
 
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The 3.x/4E "edition war" is unique because it's more than just gamers.

Publishers (such as Paizo) have taken sides/made choices as well. Also, because of the OGL, there are now even more versions of D&D being actively supported than at any other time.

From one point of view, it's not only 3.x vs. 4E, it's *every other OGL variant or edition of D&D* vs. 4E.

And more are on the way! Goodman - a 4E supporter - is now (reportedly) going to release *their* version of D&D in an RPG. Reportedly a hybrid of 3.5 and 1E.

There is so much divisiveness over 4E it's no wonder that there are edition wars....
 

I think Marius raised from very good points when he said it all boils down to pride. I'm doing to take a related tack and say it all boils down to identity.

Tied up in all of this with pride and identity, and exacerbating the edition wars, is a countering dismissive attitude which tends to inflame the wounded pride and assaulted identity. Whether the dismissives are right in that people shouldn't be getting so worked up about a game or not, the dismissal is counter-productive in quelling the dispute even if the sentiment is sincere. It may even be particularly galling to the one side when the dismissal comes from someone who seems to have identified with the other side (though they may not have even consciously done it).
 

OSRIC was indeed out before 4e was announced, but that's completely different from saying that the OSR movement online had gathered a lot of steam and a high profile. That timing becomes a bit trickier, and it becomes more difficult to separate the announcement of 4e as a possible contributing variable. I heard about OSRIC for at least a year before I heard of the OSR acronym and discovered that there was an online "movement" associated with OSR, including other retroclones, new publications, a fairly active blogosphere, etc.

Although I obviously can't prove it, I suspect strongly that the migration to 4e by WotC greatly spurred the OSR movement like a shot of anabolic steroids. You're right that it can't be a cause of the movement existing at all, but I don't think anyone can claim that it wasn't a contributing factor to the growth of the movement into what it is today; people who were dissatisfied with the direction 4e was taking (according to previews of the edition) were turned off and went looking for something else, finding the OSR and realizing that their tastes really were along those lines all along after all, etc.. The question becomes one of degree, and how much did it contribute, but in my opinion, it's not a question of did it contribute. I think the answer to that is definitely "yes."

As much as 4e may have spurred others to look into the OSR, the creation of the OSR had already happened before 4e was announced. OSRIC was published and had more than 30 products for it before 4e's publication date.
Encounter Critical, Mazes & Minotaurs, Labyrinth Lord, Mutant Future, BFRPG, Swords & Wizardry, and Fight On! magazine all preceded 4e's release.

There were kind of two waves. First, with 3e, there was an upsurge in interest in D&D, particularly "old school" D&D. In 2000, WotC was going "back to the dungeon" and Necro was offering "3rd edition rules and 1st edition feel." Hackmaster followed in 2001, and in the first half of the decade, you saw a lot of attempts to latch on to some "old school cred" ("fishing for grognards" is what I called it): the Judges Guild products, the Blackmoor products, Goodman's DCC, and really, culminating with Troll Lord's Castles & Crusades. All were by professional game designers and all were using "updated" rules to present "old school" settings/scenarios.

At the exact same time, the Internet was becoming a much larger part of everyone's lives, and people were using it more and more for things they hadn't done before. One of those things was D&D. Simultaneously with the creation and growth of places like EnWorld and WotC's site, sites for disenfranchised D&D fans began to pop up. Dragonsfoot became the most prominent, but there were also places like the Guild of OD&D, the Vault of Pandius, and even WotC's own OOP board that were all popping up around 2002. These places became the breeding ground of the 2nd wave.

The 2nd wave was largely made up of consumers within the "disenfranchised" online D&D community who weren't satisfied with the professional attempts to produce "old school" products and who decided to do it themselves. Using the OGL to reproduce O(A)D&D had been floated as an idea on Dragonsfoot as early as 2003. When Troll Lords announced its project later that year, a lot of members of the community participated in the play testing. When C&C came out in 2004, to be diplomatic, there were some who were disappointed in the end result. This led to OSRIC and the retro-clone movement. This sort of mingled and intertwined with the more D&D friendly members of the indie-rpg movement of the first half of the decade to become the fan/hobbyist produced movement of blogs and fanzines that is the OSR.

Thus, in a lot of ways it was complete happenstance that the OSR was really hitting full stride when 4e was released.
 

Because the game doesn't belong to any one. Its all of ours.

This is approaching where my thoughts lie on this. BTW - This post is not about the details of the edition war - it's about the fuel stoking the fire.

The geek/nerd social identity is not defined by what you wear or what you believe - it's defined by what you do. So - we're all "gamers". The dominant RPG is D&D [1] and so, yes, sharing D&D is a strong shared currency of interaction. However, the individual experience of the relationship with the game, which itself is of course very immersive, makes the game a strong part of self identity.[2] So, I think if you attack/change/challenge my game then I can take this very personally. You are attacking me.

If you consider this in terms of "Geek Social Fallacies"http://http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html, we see that #1 is "Ostracizers are Evil". I think that while the fall out of "Edition Wars" is seldom real ostracism - this may be its emotional resonance in some cases.

[1] I haven't played D&D for 19 years - so I have been spectating on the edition discussions with interest. I've never played a 3.0/3.5 game. However, it has lead to me acquiring views that aren't important here.
[2] Thinking about this, I realise I think of myself as a "Traveller player" rather than a D&Der as this was the game I really got into having found RPGs via D&D. In practice, only a few % of my game time over recent years has actually been with Traveller but that hadn't shifted this internal calibration.

Note: other Identity posts came in while I was trying to craft this post - apologies for apparent repetition.
 
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But anyway, I thought edition warring was indeed a Bad Thing, yes. It's generally mentioned, when it's mentioned at all, in that light. Well, to the best of my knowledge.
Not to me. I think the prevailing opinion 'round here is unusual in that regard, and has more to do with the moderators and the posting climate in general. Edition wars don't have to be bad.
 

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