What's Sci Fi Got that Fantasy Don't Got?

[genshou]

Oh, I have no doubt. But that's most likely (I say as if I knew any of these people you're referring to) a case of latching on to rumors about D&D that have been floating around for years.

See, for my parents (and for my wife, for that matter) the potential problem with D&D isn't that it's evil, its that its potentially a time trap where I spend too much time and energy while neglecting more important things. Which, all things considered, is probably more a reflection on me than on D&D. Plus my wife thinks it seems pretty nerdy to tell her friends that I'm off playing D&D. Then again, my current group got it's start at church; my wife overheard two other members of our ward that we didn't really know well talking about D&D, and jumped in and said, "hey! my husband plays that too!" At one point, there were eight of us all from the same congregation playing D&D regularly. Sadly, due to move-outs and people getting into other hobbies, there's only three of us left that still do.

My dad was also pretty savvy, and ran the Special Collections Department at the Cushing Library of Texas A&M University--which has one of the premier science fiction and fantasy collections in the nation, I might add, so he knew a thing or two about it. He may have been aware of the various topless monsters and whatnot in some of the early books too. That's a more valid concern for Christian groups than "D&D = Occult and Satanic", IMO. Then again, those are versions of the game that have been out of print for some time, too.

Oh, my parents have slowly accepted over the years that I wouldn't be so involved with something evil. But whether it's sci-fi or fantasy, it's just a big waste of time to them. Then again, so is my Philosophy major as well as my authoring attempts. I'm not writing for money, and therefore am not doing anything "productive." Such a narrow-minded, empirical view of the world... where's the sophia?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that this thread can't stay open if it veers towards talking about real-world religion beyond the recognition that peoples religious beliefs may affect the kind of game which they are comfortable with playing.

i.e. the stuff up to now is OK, but I've had to delete one post which was effectively just religion bashing.

Thanks for remaining sensitive to the issues and board policy to everyone else

Regards

 

[The_Magician]

Faster Than Light Speed and Mr Spock.

 

[Prince Atom]

I'm not trying to bash anyone's religion here, of course. I think my friend is being kind of foolish, but then again, he's got a kind of moral consistency.

Someone asks him, "Do you play D&D?" he can say, "Well, I usetacould."

I just don't think it's going to come up. I mean, I can't recall the last time an almost complete stranger in a setting other than a game store started talking to me, and the conversation turned that way. So selling all his fantasy stuff is a little baffling to me.

Recruiting for D&D is like recruiting for any other thing -- you have to go out and be (somewhat) aggressive with it, because otherwise it'll probably never come up.

Of course, I also don't understand how religion and science can't coexist, as many people think. So I guess in this whole issue I'm pretty baffled.

TWK

 

[Estlor]

One thing I've noticed is that, normally, sci-fi (and I mean honest to god, real sc-fi, not space opera or sci-fantasy) has a socio-policitcal message behind it that uses advanced technology or futuristic society as an extended metaphor for an issue facing us today.

Take a look at a film like The Running Man. Yeah, it's a cheesy '80s sci-fi piece drummed up as a thriller piece for AH-Nold's career, but it came out of a time when people first started questioning the value of watching so much television. Given the trend of "reality" TV we have today, it's equally as viable a vehicle today, a warning for us what happens when reality and telivision become too blurred. Well, that and you get to see the host from Family Feud be the evil son of a female dog you always knew he was

But my point is sci-fi is somewhat more "real" and "approchable" than fantasy because the viewer doesn't have to look past the wizards and demons to see the allegory buried underneath. Too many people get lost on the surface of fantasy to understand that it achieves the same purpose as sci-fi, it just uses "magic" to create the backdrop instead of technology.

 

[cmanos]

D&D has always had a stigma against it since some moron in the 70's came out and said the magic was based on real-life witchcraft. Ultraconservative Christian groups have always claimed the magic works and is the work of Satan.

With SciFi and Supers, there is no 'magic'. It's technology and mutant abilities. Nothing satanic about those.

 

[genshou]

I also don't understand how religion and science can't coexist, as many people think. So I guess in this whole issue I'm pretty baffled.

TWK

Hence why I have a certain quote in my sig.

 

[ARandomGod]

Of course, I also don't understand how religion and science can't coexist, as many people think. So I guess in this whole issue I'm pretty baffled.

TWK

Oh, they can completely exist. However they generally don't. It's a thing in the entire Sci-Fi Genre. They ignore religion almost religiously. And a good thing to, by doing so they manage to avoid almost any religious conflict, they never contradict any religion, because they leave them all out! In the main (in my opinion) this is because the type of people who'll have a religious conflict are too dumb (er... unobservant, sorry) to notice that the exclusion of religion is an even larger slight than making up a fictional one...

And, of course, because the intellectual readers realize intellectually what's being avoided, and therefore can not be offended by it that way.

 

[WayneLigon]

Of course, I also don't understand how religion and science can't coexist, as many people think. So I guess in this whole issue I'm pretty baffled.

Go find some of the more recent issues of Time or Newsweek where they're talking about the evolution debates and you should get a glimpse of why some feel this is so. To many, science directly contradicts what they beleive is truth delivered to them by the only source of any truth at all.

If their religion says that the Sun, for instance, is the direct manifestation of their sun god then science comes along and says, no, the Sun was created by a chance accumulation of gasses that happened to compress to the point where nuclear fusion took place.. they may feel that that is a contradiction and that it's saying that their religion is wrong.

Many religions feel about their gods this way. Some don't. Some can find compromise in what both say, some can't.

 

[WayneLigon]

D&D has always had a stigma against it since some moron in the 70's came out and said the magic was based on real-life witchcraft.

Eh, parts of it are based on real-world magical practices because D&D is based on the fantasy fiction of the time, which itself was and is heavily influenced and inspired by real-world occult practices and beliefs, and by mythology, which are handed-down real world beleifs and practices. So D&D has a lot of those bits as a 'copy of a copy' Most fantasy fiction continues to have some basis in real world occult practices save in the few series that really want to distinquish themselves as something different.

The various material components rules use the laws of sympathy and contagion codified by The Golden Bough and used in almost all fantasy fiction.
The idea of magic-users having familiars, summoned creatures which aid them.
The idea of summoning creatures and binding them into service.
Divination; asking spirits to fortell the future.
Healing with a touch.
Symbols that harm and bind.
Summoning circles.
Clay Golem creation.
Potion creation.
Shapeshifting.

Those are just the ones off the top of my head, all directly based on real-world occult or mystical tradition beliefs. You'd prbably get that just with a light skimming of the text and illustrations, particularly in the editions of the time. The ironic thing about those old diatribes is that if they had really read the books deeply instead of just repeating what they'd been told by others, they'd have found more than was normally mentioned. I remember us looking through books like that (such as Dark Secrets of the New Age) and saying 'Hey, he didn't mention X or Y...'