What's so wrong with Hulking Hurler?

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Here's why:

http://rpol.net/display.cgi?gi=668&gn=The+Exodus:+Epic+DnD+3.5&threadnum=208&date=1069788918

But that doesn't prove anything other than people playing non-standard races with non-standard combinations can have a lot of power once off(how do you carry TWO boulders that size?).

How many PC races are Large sized?

 

[Mistwell]

I did find this on the Wizards board:

Stop me if I'm wrong.

Half ogre: Large size, +6 strength, -2 int, -2 chr, +1 LA

5 levels of barbarian: +5 bab, 2 feats, rage (+4 strength) twice a day

Warhulk: Prereqs BAB 5, large size, power attack. Benefits: 10 levels gives +20 strength, boulder throwing (strength instead of dex to hit, damage 2d8, hit 4 targets with a single throw).

Hulking hurler: Prereqs BAB 5, large size, 3 level PRC. Benefits: 2 levels gives: Really throw anything (chuck anything up to a light load). Super really throw anything (chuck anything up to a medium load and two size categories above you).

So - we have an 18th level character. His strength is (assuming an 18 to start) 24+4(levels)+4(rage)+20(war hulk) = 52. We can get to 62 with magical items with relative ease.

This makes his medium load 346 (medium load for a strength 22 character) x 256 (4 x 4 x 4 x 4 - +40 strength from the encumberance rules on extending the table) x 3 (because he's large) = 265728.

The end of complete warrior says that a thrown weapon does 5d6 damage for a 400 pound object, plus another 1d6 for every 200 pounds beyond that.

(265728-400)/200 x 1d6 + 5d6 = 1331d6 damage. Plus strength bonus (+39).

An average of about 4697 damage a hit.

Hmm.

Lead weighs in at 712 pounds per cubic foot, so we need 373 cubic feet of lead to throw. As a sphere, that has a diameter of 8.932771693 feet. Which probably falls within the large to colossal size range that our buddy can throw.

And if we buy it as lead sling bullets, it comes in at 1 silver for 5 pounds of lead, making our lead ball cost 5315 (rounded up) gold.

So if 4 targets line up in a row...
Splat.
Splat.
Splat.
Splat.

Painful.
I think that makes 18788 points of damage in blocks of 4697 damage. At that point, who cares about damage resistance!

It also seemed to get into the millions of points of damage by page 3. But really, all of that is silly. No DM would let you get anywhere near that, unless it was a joke game.

It seems to me that, played realistically, in an actual long term game as a real character, the Hulking Hurler is about balanced with other PRCs.

 

[Shin Okada]

The biggest mistake is that improvised weapon damage table. Weapons should inflict damages based on their size category, not on weight.

 

[Someone]

Yes, the problem lies in the improvised weapon rules, since carrying capacity increases geometrically (x4 for each +10 Str) while normal bonus to damage linearly (+5 for each +10 bonus), and imprvised weapons deal damage based on weight.

Really, I wonder why not more PCs take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Chest) since it deals 3d6 damage and weights only 100 lbs. And at medium levels a lot of fighter with good strenght are able to carry the wagon: 5d6 damage. There should be a lot of hight level fighters mastering the art of wagon-fencing.

 

[Endur]

The PRC writers forgot to add the 20d6 maximum damage rule for a thrown object. If you make max damage 20d6, then nothing is wrong with it.

I've seen a lot of folks mention that the hulking hurler is overpowered, but can find no explanation of why they think that.
What's so wrong with this PRC?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Hulking Hurler can truly throw anything, provided the weight is within his light load. For example, a Mountain Giant/Hulking Huler 3 with strength of 52 can throw anything up to (173 x 64 x 16 =) 177,152 lbs. (that is about 80 ton)

And that's what's wrong with the Hulking Hurler. Once those builds surpass the gods themselves with their ability scores ( mean, Str 52? Helloo?), it gets wacky. After all, this Mountain Giant has 30 hd and I think a hefty LA for +32 Str, +26 Con and Colossal size. This guy won't appear anywhere in a normal D&D game.

Besides, how big will a 80-ton-rock be? It's nothing you just carry around, or find next to the road.

I can also create some wacky things, like Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon Wizard 100 and create an epic spell with insane amounts of damage. That doesn't mean the wizard class is overpowered.

 

[Jdvn1]

Besides, how big will a 80-ton-rock be? It's nothing you just carry around, or find next to the road.

No, you wont' find it next to the road, but if that's your speciality, you'll find one of:

Lead weighs in at 712 pounds per cubic foot, so we need 373 cubic feet of lead to throw. As a sphere, that has a diameter of 8.932771693 feet.

Which is probably Large.

And that's for a Half-Orge, which is +1 LA.

 

[Storyteller01]

Unless you have a hidden supplier, your still hard pressed to find a 9' ball of lead (or have one made). A 9' ball of ANY metal could see better use for an army of people.

 

[domino]

I wonder what the shrinking enhancment would do, for simplifying the math a bit. You take a hulking hurler, make him only reasonably strong, and then shrink the ball down a little bit (to weaigh 1/16th the size, and 1/4000th the weight) giving him something about the size of a grapefruit. At that point, you really only need maybe a 16 strength, to throw a 45 pound weight, that when thrown still blossoms into a nearly 900d6 rock.

 

[Doctor Shaft]

Hulking Hurler is one of the PRCs people like to yap on and on about because they like to have a discussion about math. Those numbers nerds!

In reality, I think every single one of them, as well as many other people, realizes that the only thinking the Hulking Hurler needs to become "balanced" is a damage cap. It really makes no sense that a wizard can shoot magical, burning hot plasma from his finger tips, and be forced upon with a damage cap... and then the hulking hurler's damage simply multiplies (exponentially of course) because he picked up a bigger rock.

HP isn't so supposed to go astronomically high either. So a hulking hurler, even with a 20d6 damage cap, can already basically kill an entire village of commoners and low level soldiers without effort. I think this properly represents D&D physics well enough, regardless if the giant throws the tip of a mountain at someone, or just a wagon sized boulder. The rock is going to smash you just the same.

Just make sure you don't use the improvised weapons table, and base it on "size", and/or just throw the damage cap on, and don't let your players become Half-Dragon, Half-Giant, Beastslayer races, and Hulking Hurler won't ruin your game.