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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest&nbsp; 85555" data-source="post: 6849066">I think wanting innovation and resisting it are both fine. What troubles me is lumping either group in with Elitist or Abrasive posters online. It is sort of like a backdoor argument, saying that WOTC should or shouldn't add/take away certain mechanics because it is attracting the wrong crowd. I also think your greatly simplifying what happened with 4E. There were indeed some very hostile threads all over the internet when 4E came out. But pretty much both sides were going at it. And for both sides the stakes seemed high because that was a big change. For one group the risk was the loss of a new edition that met their needs, for the other the risk was the game would continue to go in a direction that didn't serve how they liked to play. Being critical of 4E, and not adopting it isn't a sin. Me not liken 4E wasn't part of an effort on my part to drive people away from the hobby. For me personally, I didn't like the change to 4E. And part of the reason was for me, it just didn't feel like D&D. That doesn't make it a bad game. And it also doesn't mean it wasn't a genuine edition of D&D ( I am not the arbiter of what gets to called D&D and what doesn't). But what I meant by that criticism is it was different enough that to me it didn't feel like D&D any longer to me. I don't always play D&D, but when I do, I go to it for certain reasons (the way spells work, the way classes are,etc) and 4e just didn't have what I look for in the game. That wasn't everyone's experience, but it was mine and I think it is a valid point of view because it is just a subjective opinion. What I think happened in the flamewars is both sides saw subjective opinions as statements of fact as judgements on each others preferences. It got heated and people said a lot of nasty things. I think the return to some of the older stuff is just a nod to gamers who felt a bit abandoned by 4E (and possibly aspects of 3E). I suppose it is possible that is inviting in some negative people. But one could just as easily turn the tables and try to suggest that 4E, with its appeal to indie RPG mechanics was inviting in bad players from that section of the community as well. I thin that isn't much of an argument in either case, because it isn't about what is good fro the game mechanically or what bests serves the player base. It seems like a way of getting certain mechanics out of the game by painting the fans of those mechanics in a negative light (where I think the truth is most people who like the nostalgia factor or the indie factor are probably just decent normal people looking for a game they can enjoy playing).</blockquote>

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