What's the point with Skill Tricks?

[Sir Brennen]

I love skill tricks, its too bad there are so few skill points going around. Sad for fighters again, as usual.

How many points you gonna put into Jump anyway? Seriously, maxing out on tricks averages to 1 skill point a level. Even a lowly fighter could spare enough to learn a trick or two by 10th level. A smart (above average Int) warrior would probably learn a few tricks, but the majority are still going to be for the "tricky" (i.e. rogue, scout, bard, ect.) classes.

Note that while tricks have skill prereqs, and cost skill points, they aren't always just "an automatic use of a skill" to do something. Getting a change in direction while charging, for example.

 

[Rystil Arden]

There will surely be a feat soon that grants you 2 tricks.

If tricks costs 2 skill points, it would have to give you at least three tricks or else it would be patently foolish to take it instead of Open-Minded from the SRD (which gives you 5 skill points to spend however you please)

 

[Laman Stahros]

There will surely be a feat soon that grants you 2 tricks.

There are feats in Complete Scoundrel that do just that. But you have to know two tricks to take them.

 

[Stalker0]

Skill tricks : rogues :: bonus feats : fighters

Exactly, every time a new feat is released its good for fighters, because they are the only class that can take them all. And of course the phb II love for fighters

 

[Nyeshet]

Skill tricks AND bonus feats : martial rogues.

You know, that is an interesting idea. With both the slew of new feats from PH2 and the tricks from CSc, the martial rogue variant from UA (getting bonus feats instead of Sneak Attack) would be quite interesting to play - potentially more powerful than the rogue, in fact. Even if the feats are limited to only fighter bonus feats, it would still be a potent combination, I think.

 

[MKMcArtor]

There will surely be a feat soon that grants you 2 tricks.

A feat already exists that gives 2.5 skill tricks. Open Minded (Complete Adventurer, 111) grants 5 skill points.

Er... as has been pointed out already. My bad!

(Andy set the costs of skill tricks at 2 skill points in order for Open Minded to grant a character two skill tricks right away. My original handover had variable cost skill tricks. I like the developed version better. )

 

[Razz]

A feat already exists that gives 2.5 skill tricks. Open Minded (Complete Adventurer, 111) grants 5 skill points.

Er... as has been pointed out already. My bad!

(Andy set the costs of skill tricks at 2 skill points in order for Open Minded to grant a character two skill tricks right away. My original handover had variable cost skill tricks. I like the developed version better. )

The real question is how do you determine what should be a trick and what shouldn't? I have ideas for new tricks, but the sidebar in the book about the difference between tricks and feats are contradictive.

Keep in mind half of the tricks published are as good as feats (some are already feats) and some of the tricks can be accomplished at epic level (making skill tricks moot by that point...unless you want to create Epic Skill Tricks...)

 

[Stalker0]

Keep in mind half of the tricks published are as good as feats (some are already feats) and some of the tricks can be accomplished at epic level (making skill tricks moot by that point...unless you want to create Epic Skill Tricks...)

I think if your normal bonus gets high enough to the point that the skill trick is completely obsolete, you should get those 2 skill points back. A reward for investing so highly in the skill.

 

[Sejs]

You know, that is an interesting idea. With both the slew of new feats from PH2 and the tricks from CSc, the martial rogue variant from UA (getting bonus feats instead of Sneak Attack) would be quite interesting to play - potentially more powerful than the rogue, in fact. Even if the feats are limited to only fighter bonus feats, it would still be a potent combination, I think.

For the game I run, I've been tossing together sort of an Opposition Party of adventurers. Not exactly enemies per se, more rivals. I mapped things out and I decided that I wanted one of these guys to be an archer. Looking over the roles that needed to be filled I noted that aha, the also need a scout/traps guy. Okay, so we'll combine the two.. hmm.. sneak attack only works if you're within 30' and if you're that close you're kinda missing the whole point of archery, what to do... aha! Martial rogue. Perfect fit. Now add in potential skill tricks on top of that, and boy are my PCs gonna hate this guy.

 

[Felon]

If tricks costs 2 skill points, it would have to give you at least three tricks or else it would be patently foolish to take it instead of Open-Minded from the SRD (which gives you 5 skill points to spend however you please)

OR, such a feat would have to provide a slight extra benefit, such as increasing the limit of skill tricks you can know by one...which happens to be what we get in CS.

Noting that skill tricks are limited to one every other level, and that a given trick can only be used once per encounter (or once per minute outside of initiative), I'd say the impact of skill tricks are not quite as severe as I"m hearing some folks make'em out to be. There won't be nonstop Acrobatic Backstabs, for instance.