What's with Jumping?

[smetzger]

I think that's one of the main problems with 3.x - allowing PCs to create magic items. Potions and scrolls and wands and staffs? Ok. Anything with charges is difficult to abuse. But constant magic items, especially wondrous items, are easy to abuse, and that's why there have to be strict guidelines on prices and how magic items get made.

With all the changes that 3.5 has. I was surprised to find out that the magic-item feats didn't get an overhaul. Create Wonderous Items, Craft Ring, Craft Staff, and Craft Rod are just begging to be re-written in a more logical and game balancing way.

 

[Johnny Angel]

It looks to me like even with the new jump spell, the rules make a +10 Ring of Jump considerably less expensive than the new Improved Ring of Jumping.

Caster Level (1) X Spell (1) X Constant Effect (2000) + cost of Masterwork Ring

Am I misreading this?

 

[Steverooo]

Great Minds Think Alike!

I just came here to start my own thread on this, and here you are!

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1219751#post1219751

I'll post what I see as the problem, there, although it applies to this thread just as much!

 

[Staffan]

It looks to me like even with the new jump spell, the rules make a +10 Ring of Jump considerably less expensive than the new Improved Ring of Jumping.

Caster Level (1) X Spell (1) X Constant Effect (2000) + cost of Masterwork Ring

Am I misreading this?

Yes. You're missing the bit where it says that you can't just take the cost formulas blindly. If something gives a bonus to a skill, it should probably be priced as a skill bonus rather than as a spell item.

Basically, it's the same rule that says you can't make a Ring of True Strike for 2,000 gp.

 

[Mystery Man]

As a DM when I saw the new rules for jumping I was elated. My players were of course very upset. But it is the natural propensity for players to want everything without a price.

A love the new darkness spells too.

 

[Johnny Angel]

As a DM when I saw the new rules for jumping I was elated. My players were of course very upset. But it is the natural propensity for players to want everything without a price.

A love the new darkness spells too.

This was part of what I was asking in the first post. Were the old rules for Jumping causing disruption, or allowing characters to circumvent challenges too easily? The ring my party got was made available in The Speaker in Dreams, which was designed with 3rd Edition in mind.

 

[Mystery Man]

This was part of what I was asking in the first post. Were the old rules for Jumping causing disruption, or allowing characters to circumvent challenges too easily? The ring my party got was made available in The Speaker in Dreams, which was designed with 3rd Edition in mind.

For me no because a ring of jumping was never a must have item. The real reason that I personally like the new mechanics is that they actually make much more sense. The ring does what it was meant to do in that it provides some extra "oomph" but doesnt launch the character into orbit.

 

[Saeviomagy]

For me no because a ring of jumping was never a must have item. The real reason that I personally like the new mechanics is that they actually make much more sense. The ring does what it was meant to do in that it provides some extra "oomph" but doesnt launch the character into orbit.

The real problem is that not all skills are created equal.

Jump is nice, sure, but it's far, far, far less effective than even the lamest forms of transportation magic, or even the average length of rope.

Whereas hide and sneak basically can't be replaced (even by invisibility - because invisibility stacks with hide and sneak, and invisibility tends not to last for as long as you'd like it to).

So - formerly the elven cloak and boots seemed to be owned by every single character who had any kind of focus in hiding and sneaking, basically making such a character undetectable. In short, they were too good.

At the same time, the +30 to jump checks ring was all-but unused, and even when it was being used, it's capabilities were minor at best.

In short - I'd advocate that the jump rules should probably be altered to make ludicrous jumps (2 or 3 times olympic records) attainable by 5th level characters (ie - the same time the wizard has access to fly). Same for climb or swim or balance.

Frankly - realism be damned. Make the skills useful and worthwile investing in.

 

[Pagan priest]

In short - I'd advocate that the jump rules should probably be altered to make ludicrous jumps (2 or 3 times olympic records) attainable by 5th level characters (ie - the same time the wizard has access to fly). Same for climb or swim or balance.

Frankly - realism be damned. Make the skills useful and worthwile investing in.

If we were talking about a wuxia type martial artist, then I could agree to such jumps at 5th level. Outside of some sort of wuxia based game, no. Not until much higher levels should the skill by itself do such incredible things. Magically augmented, sure, no problem.