What's with the Gnome Hate?

[Sylrae]

Could someone explain to me all the gnome hate?
Alot of people seem to hate them, but I don't know why. I mean, I don't like the 2e gnomes or lawn gnomes, but I hate the 2e dwarves too. they just look like absurdly ridiculous little fat people.

I'm not a big fan of the 4e gnome art, but the 3e and pathfinder ones are pretty cool. I like the iconic gnome bard. On the cover of Complete swashbuckler his face looks alarmingly like my best friend's before he started getting shorter haircuts.

and Pathfinder gnomes look pretty cool too.

----------------3e stuff
I don't get what's not to like about them. They're like the short magical race. Theyre taken a little less seriously, but mechanic wise theyre ok, and I think overall they're pretty cool. I usually play FR games - (3e), or games where anything with the appropriate LA goes - (3e), but out of the core races(PHB), gnomes are my second favorite. my favorite out of those would be the elf. However, I rarely use the PHB for races.

If you're gonna rag on someone, shouldn't it be the orc or halfelf-(3e)?even the halfling is less interesting than a gnome. I know the halfling is supposedly a staple, but I've never seen anyone actually try to play one. Gnomes I've seen though. and nobody plays halforcs cause they got shafted so much statistically.If youre gonna play an orc everyone I know just uses the MM 3.5 orc cause they suck less and are still LA 0. and well, nobody plays helf elves cause they suck too.

So given the fact that out of the 7 core races, gnomes are in the 4 that don't suck mechanically(Human, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome), and they have a cool spellcaster bard niche which other races dont, why do people hate them.

---------back to 4e stuff
as far as 4e races are concerned, are there any you guys hate? I loathe the dragonborn. I'm not opposed to having a draconic race, I just don't like the artwork, or the idea that they are so numerous. Not a fan of the eladrin either, but that's because I like the 2e and to a lesser extent 3e eladrin, which were a kind of celestial and had a cool background with different abilities then they do in 4e, and the fact that they made the teleporting fey be called eladrin means they killed 'actual' eladrin. plus there's the practicality issue of if you ever capture the pcs, and the guards know one is eladrin (he didnt successfully pass himself off as an elf), the practical thing to do is just put out his eyes.

what do you guys think? what's up with the 4e gnome art, what's up with the gnome hate, and why do people like those other races I listed issues with?

 

[Ioreck_Thorinback]

So really you don't like the fluff of the Dragonborn and Eladrin.

For me it was Dragonborn and Tiefling. I turned Dragonborn into a hidden race, unknown to the world, and tiefling into one of the underdark races, as feared as the drow. Everything works out nicely.

 

[Otterscrubber]

I don't recall to many folks hating on gnomes, in fact I seem to recall several people being very excited to have gnome stat blocks in the MM so they could play them as a PC if their DM allowed.

Although in my experience I have to lump my gnome experience with your halfling one, I don't really know anyone who played one consistently or as anything other than an experiment.

Also, I don't think dragonborn are all that numerous based on the description in the PHB. Doesn't sound like there are any DB cities, only a few scattered communities of them. I know what you mean, they seem to have the appearance of standard lizard men. Why aren't they just lizard men? Well i guess cuz they have a breath weapon? Meh. I play one, only because I had a concept for a 3.5v Half-Dragon ranger who dual-wielded a two-bladed sword. Sadly, no more two bladed swords, although I'm sure we will figure something out for the campaign.

 

[Shroomy]

Travelocity screwed me good....er...wait...seriously, the idea that gnomes are widely hated is overstated IMO, mainly stoked by their 4e "demotion" (even though the 4e gnome rocks) and bad reactions to the WoTC flash animation. Which is ironic, since the gnome from that cartoon is probably one of the more iconic elements of 4e.

In any case, the gnome is coming out in PHBII (in what March?), so we don't have that long to wait for an official, full-blown 4e gnome.

 

[MwaO]

Basically, a lot of players of Gnomes tend to think that Gnomes should be funny in a slightly annoying way.

Two big problems exist with this:
Funny is difficult. There are some gamers who pull this off effortlessly. There are other gamers who couldn't be funny if their life depended on it. Worse, there are some people who think simply playing a Gnome ought to be hilarious in and of itself - you know the kind of person who tells you a joke, you don't laugh, so they repeat it louder as if that will make it funny? You don't laugh at those Gnomes, they'll try to do it bigger as if that will make it more funny.

Annoying is easy. Combine an annoying player with a Gnome and you don't get slightly annoying. You get really annoying.

That's why people hate Gnomes.

 

[Yaezakura]

I know what you mean, they seem to have the appearance of standard lizard men. Why aren't they just lizard men?

Dragonborn look nothing like Lizardmen. In fact, about the only thing they have in common is scales. I don't know what art you're looking at, but a lizardman looks like a giant bipedal lizard, while a Dragonborn has distinctive draconic features.

As for the gnome hate... there's not really a lot of hate for gnomes. But there's also not a whole lot of support for them. Gnomes were just kind of there, and had no distinctive place in the world, outside of Eberron. Plus there was a lot of confusion over what role they were supposed to be playing. Were they supposed to be little tricksters, weaving illusions and playing pranks? Were they supposed to be tinker gnomes, always fiddling with mechanical gadgets? You ask two people what a gnome is supposed to be, you'll likely get two very different answers, about the only common element being "little". While I never liked gnomes, I'm glad they decided to take the time to make them unique and interesting as a race instead of just kicking out there and saying "Here's a gnome, you figure out what the hell they're supposed to be".

 

[KarinsDad]

I don't hate Gnomes more than any other Monster with a lair in the MM that should be destroyed.

Protecting society (from stinky little monsters) is the ultimate goal. Gaining wealth comes in a close second. Killing things, a close third. Well, maybe wealth first, killing second, and protecting third. No, no. Killing first, wealth second, protecting third.

Yes, that definitely the order. Murder, loot, and justifying it.

Starting with any Monster (especially stinking little ones) in the MM.

 

[Sylrae]

gnomes were never that hard to figure out. you have 2 real options:

1. Magical, and not very serious
2. Tinkering, and machine building

in most D&D games machines play little role, so 1 is the only option. in ones that have tech, or in FR, where gnomes are the ONLY ones with any real tech, then you have a pick.

not all gnomes are funny, but when roleplaying a gnome my advice is just dont take your actions as seriously as you normally do. dont actively try to be funny, it rarely works.

as for eberron, i honestly never gave it a chance. the warforged just make me want to kill things. I have no idea why either. but thats why i never tried the setting is my unexplicable hatred of warforged.

as for dragonborn: just a note - what the hell is up with lizards with boobs. seriously. female dragons dont have boobs. dragonborn arent mammals.

I liked dragonkin from 3.x better, but they werent a player race from what I remember.

 

[DracoSuave]

I'm a MONSTER!! RAWR!



In Eberron Gnomes were pretty dope, with their spying and intrigues. They made them into a viable culture, which I thought was excellently done. The baseline however left much to be desired, which is why it kept changing from edition to sub-edition.

 

[Yaezakura]

as for dragonborn: just a note - what the hell is up with lizards with boobs. seriously. female dragons dont have boobs. dragonborn arent mammals.

I liked dragonkin from 3.x better, but they werent a player race from what I remember.

If you read the newest Dragon article, "Dragonborn Ecology", it points out that Dragonborn are not reptiles. They are warm-blooded, and they do nurse their young in the first few months of life before their teeth grow in.

The Dragonborn are draconic in nature, but they are not full dragons. It's only natural for them to have some biological differences. And what with gods and such being real, and the Dragonborn being humanoid in shape, it's only natural for them to also share some basic elements with other humanoid creatures.