What's wrong with the magic item Christmas tree?

[Garthanos]

In game, there is no meaningful mechanical difference between Arthur's power coming from Excalibur or Arthur's power actually being inherent while he believes it comes from Excalibur. The character is fully capable of chalking up his good performance while wielding a different blade to divine providence, if it ever comes up.

Hmm potentially making Arthurs power no more or less intrinsic than Lancelots? You could certainly envision an Arthur where any weapon he might wield even becomes... the Dragons tooth.... that might be an interesting take on it.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

My thought was that mechanically he's identical even when he picks up a different sword. The character of Arthur would still treat the specific sword as totemic. The player might just know different.

That can either be a hand wave to simplify math or it can be a deep truth about the campaign world that "King of England" is a state that endows power to Arthur, even if he doesn't know it and has rationalized his powers as coming from the sword and scabbard.

Since both of those play out identically in practice, doesn't really matter as long as everyone is having fun, wot?

 

[Garthanos]

Since both of those play out identically in practice, doesn't really matter as long as everyone is having fun, wot?

Arthur becoming a nervous wreck because he has been deprived of his symbol of kingship and its protector strikes me as an interesting take on losing his competence when the weapon is not at hand... over coming the loss might be a journey of discovery where he finds its really intrinsic... and in so doing recovers the weapon (they had more than one origin for Xcaliber... why not).

Intrinsic Bonuses Cuts the chord so we can have loss without it really being an uber loss. Alternative rewards allows it to be cut in a more focused way in the perception of the characters and players.

Minor epiphany: Without weapon Arthur "knows" and blames every miss or failure is because he lacks his symbol of rulership... independent of mechanics involved. So you can have item dependent characters and still use intrinsic bonuss... sort of.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

It becomes really interesting when psychic waves, cosmic rays, the placebo effect, and chaos theory conspire to cause the player to start rolling badly when mechanically identical "Arthur" loses his sword.

 

[Marx420]

Players got too many items?

Disjunction is my function.
May sound mean and capricious but once you have established "attacking the loot" as viable form of combat then the game becomes somewhat self-policing as the villains an PCs establish cycle of loot circulation (I keep track of total GP value of each PC, though leveling curve generally ensures it doesn't get too out of whack.) There's also plenty of delightful monsters who enjoy the choice delicacy +1 swords as well as world of thieves and cutthroats always on the lookout for an easy score. In my opinion, a DM should excise ultimate power in leveling the playing field, as this is almost necessary for high level play in later 3e as well as some other systems.

Also, I'm pretty lax on the whole "slots" situation.
Sure, you can wear three rings, might even work too.
We're gonna be rolling on a not-so-fun table though (For them, also do this after 3 or more buff spells, for them and villains).

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Players got too many items?

Disjunction is my function.
May sound mean and capricious but once you have established "attacking the loot" as viable form of combat then the game becomes somewhat self-policing as the villains an PCs establish cycle of loot circulation (I keep track of total GP value of each PC, though leveling curve generally ensures it doesn't get too out of whack.) There's also plenty of delightful monsters who enjoy the choice delicacy +1 swords as well as world of thieves and cutthroats always on the lookout for an easy score. In my opinion, a DM should excise ultimate power in leveling the playing field, as this is almost necessary for high level play in later 3e as well as some other systems.

Also, I'm pretty lax on the whole "slots" situation.
Sure, you can wear three rings, might even work too.
We're gonna be rolling on a not-so-fun table though (For them, also do this after 3 or more buff spells, for them and villains).

1. The system expects and requires that PCs have tons of magic items as they get to higher levels. Without them, the non-casters can't handle CR-appropriate encounters and are even more disadvantaged compared to the casters.

2. I hope I never have a DM that thinks like you, though if I did I wouldn't stick around long anyway.

 

[Marx420]

1. The system expects and requires that PCs have tons of magic items as they get to higher levels. Without them, the non-casters can't handle CR-appropriate encounters and are even more disadvantaged compared to the casters.

2. I hope I never have a DM that thinks like you, though if I did I wouldn't stick around long anyway.

(Don't know how to quote )

It is not nearly as antagonistic as you make it out to be, in fact there have several hairy situations in which the PCs would not have prevailed had they not neutralized the items of the enemy. It mostly an exercise in bookkeeping reduction and combat acceleration, and who remembers half those pluses and feats anyways? I always make certain my players are realistically equipped to deal with the threats confronting them, and my three groups don't get unnecessarily angered when anything happens to their precious "toons" and in fact relish the atmosphere of danger I attempt to create.

 

[Hussar]

I can agree with this. Also the thing that ruins the feel of magic items isn't just how many of them a character has but the constant "cycling through" and upgrading of items for nearly identical items with larger plusses. That in itself is kind of flat and boring but combined with a rules system that maps this out on some kind of level based upgrade schedule turns it into the most nonmagical experience I can think of.

This is my beef as well. I don't care that much if the PC has fifteen different items. Sure, that's a bit wahoo, but, meh, I can live with that.

OTOH, seeing the character chuck/sell whatever magic item he gets so he can get a new one with one more plus just sets my teeth on edge.

 

[Bullgrit]

OTOH, seeing the character chuck/sell whatever magic item he gets so he can get a new one with one more plus just sets my teeth on edge.

I brought this up earlier in this thread, but it seems to have been missed or ignored.

Wasn't this dropping a +1 item to pick up the +2 item an issue only in older editions of D&D? Later editions have the option to upgrade an item, so the PC can upgrade his +1 item to a +2 item instead of dropping to pick up. Right?

I mean, I've seen PCs do this in D&D3. The PC starts the game with a masterwork greatsword, and then by 10th level that same sword has been upgraded to a +2 holy greatsword.

Sure, some do drop one item to pick up a better, but it isn't necessary.

Bullgrit

 

[billd91]

Wasn't this dropping a +1 item to pick up the +2 item an issue only in older editions of D&D? Later editions have the option to upgrade an item, so the PC can upgrade his +1 item to a +2 item instead of dropping to pick up. Right?

I mean, I've seen PCs do this in D&D3. The PC starts the game with a masterwork greatsword, and then by 10th level that same sword has been upgraded to a +2 holy greatsword.

Sure, some do drop one item to pick up a better, but it isn't necessary.

Sort of yes, sort of no, I'd say.

Back in 1e/2e, we weren't usually buying upgraded equipment. We scavenged it off the battlefield. So we held onto the best equipment we had (assuming it didn't get destroyed by rust monsters or item saving throws) and upgraded off the enemies we defeated and their treasure hoards.

In 3e, you could upgrade one, sure.. But the ease with which items can be bought, commissioned, made, or upgraded makes the process an even more casual one than putting away the old sword for a new, more powerful piece of won booty.

Even if upgraded, the sword may grow with the wielder, but its character completely changes nonetheless as it does so. So I'm not at all sure the process is any better.