What's wrong with the Psion? (Advice, please)

[Psion]

Re: Whats wrong with the Psion?

He writes too many reviews!

Doesn't he ever!

Anyway, yeah, a lot of people think that the psion is a lot weak. I just think the psion is a little weak, primarily over concerns of having too few points to keep up with arcane spellcasters, being too harshly affected by the non-scaling nature of powers, and displays too severely affecting their ability to operate un-noticed. IMC, I:

• tone down displays
• improve the flexibility of the hide display feat
• improve the effectiveness of of inner strength to what it was in playtest
• give psions extra feats like piratecat suggests, at every 4th level.
• allow the psion to swap out one of their lower level powers every time they advance (this last point is primarily addressed at the scaling power issue).

Bruce's psion is a johny-come-lately considering I have already been running psions in my game as is, but I think the modest improvement. I will probably:

• Use the ITCK psion, except require that the three disciplines correspond to the psion's 3 best ability scores at the time they take their first psion level.
• Tone down my free swap every time they gain a level (making it a swap every time they gain a new power level) in favor of the ITCK scaling rules.
• Tone down my free feat to once every 5 levels, like wizards

I think I'll fly with that for a bit.

 

[Ishamael]

At one time I had given them a powers known table very similar to the wizard's spells per day table except they got more talents.

Also I took the number of spells a wizard could cast a day and then converted them into PPs. I gave psions 3/4 what that total was.

Gave them the Rogue/Cleric BAB and 1d6 HD

Worked pretty well.

Though since ITCK came out, I've been using Bruce's new version.

 

[Ishamael]

Oh yea! Let us not forget displays.

Those rules are so stupid I had forgotten they existed.

It's hard to fear a man who shoots rainbows from his crotch...


Thanks for the reminder Psion. I'll go clense myself now.

 

[Davelozzi]

Re: Re: Whats wrong with the Psion?

Thanks for the feedback guys, this is very helpful.

IMC, I:

• improve the effectiveness of of inner strength to what it was in playtest

What was the playtest version like?

And as for the reviews, too much is never enough, keep 'em coming.

 

[Chimera]

Excuse me, but where can I find ITCK?

Thanks!

 

[Davelozzi]

You can find it here:
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=87&PHPSESSID=1a5b3ab61d943add060092e629287664

and here:
http://secure.white-wolf.com/catalog/default.tpl?section=69

rumor has it that RPGnow is better because White Wolf takes a lot longer.

 

[Jarval]

I think that the psion as the PsiHB (post errata) is slightly underpowered. Their damage-dealing powers are less powerful than Wizard/Sorcerer spells, and the lack of scaling is a bit of a pain. Plus psychic combat can be a real killer. IMO the Multiple Ability Dependency is less of a problem than some people make it out to be, and displays (post errata) are better than spell-casting components. My biggest gripe with Psions is that they only get one 1st-level power at 1st level, making them something of a "one trick pony" until they gain a level.

On the other hand, they have a few pluses like more skill points (always handy), a somewhat more varied skill list, the ability to manifest powers while wearing armor, no spell components and some great non-combat powers. A single classed Psion as the PsiHB is a little weak, but no class multi-classes better!

Not owning ITCK I can't make any comments on it, but some of the rules variants presented in it are taken from the RPGCosmos website. The power scaling rule works nicely, letting your low-level powers stay useful, but not giving them too much omph. The secondary disciplines eliminate the problem of MAD IMO, without taking away the flavor that MAD give the Psion. RPGComos' variants on the Psion class give too many bonuses though, making a 1st level Egoist better than a Fighter!

If you haven't already, take a look at the Mind's Eye section on the official D&D page. They've put some useful new feats and powers on there. And if you want very lengthy explanations of what is wrong with the Psion is minute detail then check out the official Psionics Handbook board on the WotC site (The WotC boards are down until tomorrow as they install a new version of UBB.) Also, if you can get your hands on a copy of Dragon 287 (I think) then do, as there are quite a lot of psionic feats in there.

A quick question for PirateCat: What was your impression of psychic combat during play-testing?

[Edit]: The issue of Dragon is indeed 287. However, don't worry if you can't get hold of a copy, as the psionic material therein will be on the Mind's Eye page before too long.

 

[Voneth]

On the other hand, they have a few pluses like more skill points (always handy), a somewhat more varied skill list, the ability to manifest powers while wearing armor, no spell components and some great non-combat powers.

Since all of the DND games I have played in never kept track of spell componets, I was never impressed with advantage of "no spell componets." Most DM I played with just used spell componets as fluff to explain casting times.

A single classed Psion as the PsiHB is a little weak, but no class multi-classes better!.

Come again? Are you saying that mulitclassed psion is good deal or bust?

As far a psionic combat goes, I've seen two answers. Some people just chuck them out and use those slots for extra feats, meanwhile others claim the psi combat is a "dueling" system and it's only used when there is a matter of honor at stake between two psions. This avoids the whole "what happens if I'm caught in a psi combat with a mind flyer" scenario.

On the plus side, the PsiHB also introduces the psy warrior, a seperate class. And to my knowledge few complain of that class being either under or over powered.

Overall, I had wished they had originaly upped the verstility of the class, so as to offer an alternative system of power if one didn't want mages and clerics in their fantasy world. Ironic that, since ITCK offers a lot of spell conversions and essentialy turns the psi system into a spell point magic system, which has the advantage of offering more versitity to the DND crowd.

Personly, I'm still waiting for a another feats and skill psi system.

 

[Psion]

Re: Re: Re: Whats wrong with the Psion?

What was the playtest version like?

1st time you took the feat, you got one point from it, and each time after that it gave you two more than you got last time. Essentially, the pp you got from inner strength was the number of times you took the feat squared.

Oh, one thing I will add: you MUST use the malhavok versions of the prestige classes... the ones in the psi HB are nigh useless. The Malhavoc ones (available for free on monte's site, also will be in the print version of ITCK) have "+1 manifester level" type advancemnt and a few other tweaks.

 

[Davelozzi]

variant psion

Okay, so I broke down and bought the .PDF of If Thoughts Could Kill so I could check it out before my player makes his character, even though I would've prefered to wait for the print version. It's late, so I've only just flipped through it really quick. It looks like most of the new rules are just add-on options. Am I correct that the fix to the class is basically just the one sidebar "Variant: Secondary Disciplines and Variant Powers Discovered" on page 35?