What's wrong with the single-classed Ranger?

[The Souljourner]

It's on Page 3.

Ok, now you've gone the other way and made the ranger too customizable and too powerful. There probably shouldn't be choices for what abilities you get until higher level. No other class gets to choose its abilities, except the rogue at 10+, and even the rogue doesn't get that many choices.

Also, you might want to post that to the House Rules forum, since this isn't really the appropriate place (though I don't think it was particularly bad, since we're talking about how the current ranger sucks (or doesn't)).

-The Souljourner

 

[Plane Sailing]

Last thing I got to say that everyone forgets about (and really, it may not even be that important to this discussion) is that rangers do get improved twf at 9th level. Yes, it's spaced out, but maybe the problem is that it's spaced out too much. I'd say drop this virtual feat to level 6, and the ranger class would be better to everyone. Now there's an incentive to get to lv 6, since the ranger is the only one who can aquire that feat at that level.

I'm sorry to correct you, but improved two weapon fighting is not a class feature of the ranger. Their virtual feats qualify as prereqs, but it has to be selected just like any other feat.

So that idea isn't something that "everyone forgets about", it just isn't an issue at all!

p.s. of course the class skills of barbarian differ (and are inferior to) the ranger - I was just gently poking at a single assertion made by Gaiden that the ranger was the only class with that *particular* combination of benefits when the Barbarian goes one better.

 

[Relic]

Alright guys, I took all the time posting my Alt. Ranger idea, and not ONE reply. I was experimenting with the idea of giving the ranger special abilities instead of bonus feats, and a little feedback would be nice.

I agree that now it is too powerful. Many of the abilities they may select are the equivalent of two free feats... and some of the more useful and/or powerful feats at that.

I like the concept of the ranger being able to choose his abilities but what those choices are have to be balanced with how often he gets to choose and their relative power level.

Just for comparison.. I'll post what I have of my alt.ranger over on House Rules. It is not finished and still needs to be balanced but critique and tossing around ideas always helps.

 

[Storm Raven]

Ok, now you've gone the other way and made the ranger too customizable and too powerful. There probably shouldn't be choices for what abilities you get until higher level. No other class gets to choose its abilities, except the rogue at 10+, and even the rogue doesn't get that many choices.

Except the fighter, who gets bonus feats all the time as a class feature. Or the wizard, who gets bonus feats on a regular basis as a class feature too.

 

[Plane Sailing]

A simple fix to this, and the two-weapon thing that a lot of people have problems with, is to replace TWF/Ambidex with bonus feats at 2nd, 7th, 12th and 17th level. You can have it so that they're usable only in light or no armour, like the current "virtual" feats, or not bother with the hassle.

The solution which I use in my own campaign is to merge the Barbarian and Ranger into a single class... It keeps the Barbarian uncanny dodge, DR & movement rate tied to the Ranger skill list and favoured enemy (with a minor twist). It loses rage, TWF/Ambi and spells. (Barbarian rage exists as a regional feat chain which can be selected by fighters, rogues, rangers or druids from the barbarian tribes).

This simple merging captured my vision of the quintessential ranger - someone who is fast, hardy, difficult to surprise and well-equipped to survive alone in the wilderness.

A fix to _this_ is to use the OA spell list, with a few mods. This, along with the feats mod above, is what I do for my Britannia 3E setting.

An interesting spell list. I'll have to check up OA to see what some of those do. I certainly agree with moving the healing spells to the same level as all the other casting classes!

Cheers

 

[Relic]

I posted my alt.Ranger at: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27922

It is not finished (almost though) and I have not done any play testing with it to find any faults or issues with it (which I am sure there are a couple).

 

[hong]

An interesting spell list. I'll have to check up OA to see what some of those do. I certainly agree with moving the healing spells to the same level as all the other casting classes!

OA has some awesome spells, and the druid in the party (rejigged shaman) has been having a ball with them. In the last session alone, he:

- cast rebuke to stun an abyssal ravager (MM2), whereupon the party fighters butchered it in one round;

- used castigate to smack around a breath drinker (MM2 again), after which, see above;

- used magnetism to stop dead a chain golem's spinning-chains-o-death routine, which it was going to use to shred an unconscious PC.

I thought that shamans might be too wimpy compared to clerics (d6 HD, only one good save, many old faithfuls deleted from the spell list), but it's certainly not panning out that way.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Well, I suppose I'll just add to the chorus but your alt ranger gives the ranger a special ability every four levels and the minimum power for a special ability is two feats:

Mounted Combat and Ride By Attack/TWF and Ambidexterity/Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot.

The higher level special abilities are even more powerful.

Since rangers get 1 of these at every four levels thereafter, they end up getting five of them which is at least equivalent to 10 feats. (And the ranger can get a heap of special abilities that are strictly superior to feats). In the end, 20 levels of your alt.ranger nets you at least 10 effective feats. 20 levels of fighter nets you only 11 feats. So your ranger ends up removing most of the reason to play a fighter--after all its special abilities can fulfill just about every feat chain a fighter could want to pursue and it gets more skill points, a good skill list and is generally superior to the fighter in just about every way except hit dice. (And even that amounts only to an average of 1hp/level.

Alright guys, I took all the time posting my Alt. Ranger idea, and not ONE reply. I was experimenting with the idea of giving the ranger special abilities instead of bonus feats, and a little feedback would be nice.

I think a good rule of thumb is that every class needs to get something preety good every 3 levels or so. Wizards/Sorcs/Clerics gets spells EVERY level, druids gets spells, wildshape, and animal companions. Barbs get new uncanny dodges and more rages every so often, fighters a new feat every two levels, bards get more music, decent spells, and special new musics every so often (although in my opinion, not enough past 10th level). Rogues get new sneak attack every 4 levels with also get uncanny dodge and then start getting special abilities.

Monks-no comment
Paladins- get okay spells, but they also get more healing and a better mount. And hey more remove disease per day......no comment. I think paladins have similar problems to rangers in that playing a paladin all the way through is kind of though. But at least they do get some very nice specific paladin spells.
Teh ranger gets a favored enemy every 5 levels!! and some okay spells.

the ranger definately needs to get things on a more routine basis, or else its very hard to justify going with him all the way. I mean we can all talk about a 10th level ranger can do this, a 20th level ranger can do that, but you got to get him there first.

 

[The Souljourner]

I really really like that idea of a ranger, Plane Sailing. It has everything it needs to be really great. I've been thinking for a while that Rangers should really get extra movement as well.

-The Souljourner

 

[Stalker0]

Thanks for the feedback guys I appreciate it.

Basically my idea was that while a ranger gets abilities similar to a fighter, he doesn't have the flexibility that a fighter would, but I took it too far.

I like the idea that early on, a ranger doesn't have to go with the two sword route, he can instead go for the bow or mounted route. But yeah, I think I made the powers past that too strong.

I'll go ahead and change it up a bit and then post it to house rules.