What's your definition of pulp?

JPL said:
It depends on how rigidly you define "pulp" and "noir."

Eberron is, first and foremost, D&D [which is really a fantasy subgenre unto itself]. The pulp and noir are seasonings, not the main course.
If someone can define pulp and noir as "swashbckling adventure and intrigue" with a straight face then I guess they can call Eberron pulp noir.

But it'll take an awful lot of convincing before I'll believe it. Eberron is cool, but (IMO) it's not pulp or noir, seasoning or otherwise.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Sometimes "pulp" refers to heroic adventure stories (Tarzan, John Carter of Mars, the Shadow, Doc Savage, Zorro), typically printed in magazines made from cheap pulp paper, but also including cliffhanger serials and modern homages (Indiana Jones, Rocketeer, Sky Captain).

Other times, "pulp" refers to "hardboiled" detective and crime stories (Raymond Chandler, Dashiell Hammett, Mickey Spillane) and the "film noir" movies based on those stories (Maltese Falcon).

And, of course, since we're discussing RPGs, we should recognize another sub-genre of pulp: weird tales, like H.P. Lovecraft's tales of terror and Robert E. Howard's and Clark Ashton Smith's early swords & sorcery stories.

Eberron refers to itself as fantasy noir and hopes to convey an image of dark alleys, intrigue, and suspense.
 

Madelf, all I can tell you is that I understood pretty quickly what "pulp" and "noir" meant in this context.

You think Indiana Jones is pulp, but you object to using "swashbuckling action" as a synonym for "pulp"? Try googling "Indiana Jones" and "swashbuckling."

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q="indiana+jones"+swashbuckling

And you think "The Mummy" is pulp, right? An awful lot of folks seem to use the term "swashbuckling action" in their reviews...

http://www.google.com/search?q="the+mummy"+"swashbuckling+action"&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
 
Last edited:

Pulp IMHO is a combination of the following elements:

1) Good vs. Evil... no in between and the bad guys know they are bad and delight in it.
2) A few larger than life heroes against a large and ominous evil.
3) The fate of the world hangs on the success of the heroes.

I think Raiders of the Lost Ark is probably the best easily accessable example of "Pulp". If you check out the DVDs you can get some more insight into the genre though the interviews with Spielberg and Lucas.

Edit: If I were going to run a "Noir" game I'd have my players speak out their inner dialogue about what they REALLY think about situations. Each new setting would require one new inner dialogue.
 
Last edited:

It's funny, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm not really seeing the "swashbuckling action" side of the spectrum. Based on what I've read of the book, the action part seems pretty standard aside from Action Points.

It's the adventure and the intrigue that's captured my imagination. I picture dwarven artificers forging newer, cheaper conductor stones, patroned by a scrupulous half-elven bard. I see corruption festering in the cracks of the Church of the Silver Flame. I see expensive and dangerous expeditions forged into the barren Mournlands. This and more says "pulp" and to a lesser extent "film noir." The elements are there for adventure, expansionism, politics, mystery, and intrigue.

I see Gnomish dectectives with Warforged bodyguards more readily than I see high-flying, sword-spinning elven bladesinger fancy-pants action.
 

madelf said:
If someone can define pulp and noir as "swashbckling adventure and intrigue" with a straight face then I guess they can call Eberron pulp noir.

But it'll take an awful lot of convincing before I'll believe it. Eberron is cool, but (IMO) it's not pulp or noir, seasoning or otherwise.

I have to disagree with this - the setting, like any other, is what the DM and players make it. It could be played with a pulp feel, or it could be played as "Forgotten Realms, part two." But it's not so much the mechanics or elements, as how they are portrayed, and the Eberron book does give some good ideas for how this should be done. Forum Member "Express" has done a very entertaining "pulp-noir" take on his group's Eberron story hour (found here); the internal monologue, the dingy detective house, the mysterious client and the hidden secrets - pretty neat, if you ask me.

But then, it could have been done with Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, or Kalamar; it's just that the Eberron material makes it easier to create that atmosphere with its setup.
 
Last edited:

madelf said:
But it'll take an awful lot of convincing before I'll believe it. Eberron is cool, but (IMO) it's not pulp or noir, seasoning or otherwise.
It should be noted that while the terms "pulp" and "noir" have been used in describing Eberron, WotC themselves haven't been pitching it as "pulp/noir fantasy." At most they've said things like:

WotC said:
The setting combines traditional medieval fantasy with pulp action and dark adventure... a cinematic flair and an eye toward the best action-adventure movies ever filmed.
or

WotC said:
...an action-packed, intrigue-laced world of cinematic adventure...
"Pulp" and "noir" are being cited as influences, but nobody is claiming Eberron *is* "pulp" or "noir".
 

In answer to the thread title, I wrote this for a MUX that is sadly no longer open.

- - - - -
What was Pulp?

Actually, the genre that’s been quietly inserted into the background of Tomorrow MUX is equal measure Pulp and Victorian Adventure Fiction. The theory of Wold Newton evidenced by Phillip Jose Farmer in his series of biographies of fictional characters posits that the great heroes and villains of adventure fiction were in fact related, and in fact descended from a common gene pool. To wit:

“1795 - Wold Newton meteor strike: Eighteen individuals were riding in two coaches past Wold Newton, Yorkshire.... A meteorite struck only twenty yards from the two coaches.... The bright light and heat and thunderous roar of the meteorite blinded and terrorized the passengers, coachmen, and horses.... They never guessed, being ignorant of ionization, that the fallen star had affected them and their unborn.”

Quoted from Tarzan Alive, Addendum 2, pp. 247-248.

“The meteor strike was “the single cause of this nova of genetic splendor, this outburst of great detectives, scientists, and explorers of exotic worlds, this last efflorescence of true heroes in an otherwise degenerate age.”

Ibid., pp.230-231.

The fiction that these individuals starred in was heroic, adventuresome, rough, and often an odd mixture of unrealistic action and gritty realism. Doc Savage, Man of Bronze, whose gold-flecked eyes, insurmountable intellect and penchant for making 1980s technology gadgets in the 1930s would have made him the ideal crimefighter. He was, after all, the inspiration for the later Superman character. What makes the Superheroic genre different and removed from the Pulp adventurer Doc was is evident in his solution to crime. He simply performed unlicensed Brain Surgery on criminals to render them harmless.

This behaviour was by modern standards reprehensible, but no more so than the Shadow. Former master-criminal and psychologist, the repentant Kent Allard stole the identity and fortune of Lamont Cranston, and went about in a cloak, fedora, and scarf to gun down the bad guys in cold blood, laughing creepily the whole time.

Contrast these with the heroes and villains that came immediately before them. Jules Verne relates to us the story of Captain Nemo and his amazing submarine, the Nautilus. Nemo was also a repentant former arch-criminal, and evidence exists (according, at least to the Wold Newton website) that he was none other than the arch-nemesis of the world’s first and greatest detective, Sherlock Holmes. After faking his death at Reichenbach, Professor Moriarty assumed the identity of Captain Nemo and set out to avenge mankind by ending all war the hard way.

What could have persuaded Moriarty to repent? Perhaps the actions of his own daughter. Rebecca Fogg, cousin to Phillias Fogg, the famous adventurer who traveled around the world in 80 days, persuaded his cousin to join him in working to right the wrongs in the world in Her Majesty’s Service. Moriarty might have had a different view of things after becoming a father. And what did his actions and failure aboard the Nautilus do?

Well, just perhaps, they inspired Clark Savage to prepare the world for a different kind of hero. After marrying Rebecca Fogg, he prepared to give the world Doc Savage. The example of the earlier heroes brought about a darker, more ruthless breed. The Shadow was only the beginning, leading to the downward spiral and eventually leading to the current situation. Hard, ruthless men and women, believing they were doing the right thing in the hard, ruthless world they built lead to catastrophe. The world needs a needed new breed of hero. Or, to be exact, a very old one. The world needed the crew of the SeaQuest.
- - - - -
 

Henry said:
My definition is close to yours, but not quite. Here's my response to the same question from over on Eberron Boards at Wizards.com:
[snip]
I just found one of the neatest sites!

http://www.geocities.com/jjnevins/pulpsintro.html

Gives you a rundown and 1-paragraph description of THOUSANDS of pulp heroes from 1902 to 1939, and if nothing else can be used to get ideas for NPC's for Eberron!

Couple that with Black Mask, which has the full text of thousands of action pulps, available in multiple digital formats for free (or you can get them all on CD for a nominal fee), and you should be all set.
 

Remove ads

Top