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Message: <blockquote data-quote="papastebu" data-source="post: 3785241" data-attributes="member: 40894">While I think you are absolutely correct about many parts of the novels not actually pushing the story forward, I think that the motion suffered because of his illustration of the world he obviously worked so hard on EDIT: more than the irrelevent plotlines or interminable, yet necessary ones END EDIT. From my reading, it seems like you can hardly turn around in these books without bumping into some background. While this helps with getting your head into the world, it does tend to run into the "rosy fingers of dawn" sort of problem. The difference in these works is that Jordan's own descriptions take the place of the quoted cliche.As to Jordan's handling of women, I think that you could do an analysis of each of the prominent female characters and come up with a lot of commonalities.BUT, two of them come from the Two Rivers, where the only things more stubborn than the men are the women. Add to that the fact that Nynaeve has been used to having to shout a little louder to prove herself in that environment, and you get somebody that is assertive to a fault, with next to no patience for anyone, much less those she finds foolish. On top of that, the woman can't channel without a mad-on, and she is learning to love doing this thing she's afraid of, so she keeps herself pissed-off about 85-90% of the time. Aside from all that, she's just a b <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> h. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Egwene learned from Nynaeve, to start, and then went to the Tower, where obfuscators abound, and then went to the Wise Ones of the Aiel! These women are the most stubborn and intractible lot of a people to whom Two Rivers stubbornness is not even a patch.Elayne Trakand is not a bully; she's royalty. She seems very kind-hearted, otherwise.Min is somewhat of a tomboy, and is tough because of the world she grew up in, with brothers, and all. She doesn't strike me as a bully, either.Moiraine has been an Aes Sedai for more than twenty years, aside to being very dedicated to what she has taken on as her duty. Her leading everyone around by the nose, as it were, is a function of her rather large experience versus the extreme inexperience of all of the others.Siaun Sanche was the head of the Aes Sedai. If you don't need to be strong and unyielding to do that, I don't know when you would have to be.Faile Bashere is the daughter of one of the greatest generals in the known world, and their women sometimes take over from their husbands who die in battle, where the women regularly accompany them.Aviendha is, more or less, an Aiel Wise One, and was a Maiden of the Spear, before that.All of these examples are just my observations. I can, occasionally, see the argument of "this just might be a man in a dress", but I think that Jordan has written a lot of strong women into these stories, and what you are seeing as bullying is that strength becoming visible.One thing that I think he did overwrite, aside from the descriptions, is the miscommunication between men and women all the time. I find myself, over and over, thinking, "If you'd just tell him/her what was on your damn mind..."Sorry for going on so long, but I wanted to say something about this when I read your first post, and I've thought about it a bit since. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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