D&D 5E (2024) When are we getting announcements for 2026 books?

[ECMO3]

That's not behind "hey, knock it off with all the arcane magic; you're making this planet uninhabitable?"

That is what happened because the Gods Abandoned Athas. There were Gods during the Green Age, but they either left on their own accord or were driven away by Elementals. Either way the morals left with them and you ended up with the Dragon, Defilers etc.

Look at the changes to PCs and classes: There are no Paladins in Dark Sun and Clerics are Elemental priests who are severely nerfed (nerfed from the standard 2E Cleric that was already weak). In terms of mechanics, these are the biggest two changes to the standard 2E rules and both of them are focused on Religion. There are other mechanical changes as well, but they are not as significant as these.

I have never heard "you need to be religious or you end up with an amoral hellhole" was a central concept of the setting.

The main concept of the setting is without God(s) you end up with an amoral hellhole. That was a quite common way of thinking in the 90s and was a direct reaction to the moral relativism of the 80s, as the entire world became more religious and fundamentalist.

It certainly fits with the social fabric of the 90s. Especially the Dragons trying to impersonate and take the place of Gods

 

[ECMO3]

I mean, absolutely that is not the #1 theme in Dark Sun. It's a largely irrelevant part of the backstory.

That's like saying the #1 theme in the Forgotten Realms is the Wall of Souls or something.

I would disagree. Out in context of society in the 1990s, what happened on Athas is what happens when you lose religion.

The 90s saw a rapid expansion in religion and fundamentalism worldwide ..... Darksun is product of that era.

I think today the prevailing opinion is exactly the opposite - that religion causes problems in society (not saying it does or doesn't).

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I would disagree. Out in context of society in the 1990s, what happened on Athas is what happens when you lose religion.

The 90s saw a rapid expansion in religion and fundamentalism worldwide ..... Darksun is product of that era.

I think today the prevailing opinion is exactly the opposite - that religion causes problems in society (not saying it does or doesn't).

Wow. It's an interesting theory, I will grant, but it hardly seems like the "main theme" to me, but more like "interpretive subtext".

I always saw it more grunge. As in "the gods are dead.... and no one cares".

I think maybe we bring our own to it when it comes to that aspect.

Meanwhile, it's undisputed themes are social inequality and environmental collapse. Pretty darn relevant today, I would think.

 

[mamba]

The main concept of the setting is without God(s) you end up with an amoral hellhole. That was a quite common way of thinking in the 90s

maybe in the US, no idea, today is certainly the first time I heard of that as being a DS theme. That idea is also contradicted by basically every metric in the real world…

I always saw greed, corruption and environmental destruction as the main theme, and they are more relevant than ever

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I agree, I don't care if they reboot/retcon Dark Sun. I want something that speaks to our times

Yeah, that's why they should have stuck to their guns with Athas being totally destroyed.

Back in the 90s, there was still some hope.

 

[TheSword]

Wow. It's an interesting theory, I will grant, but it hardly seems like the "main theme" to me, but more like "interpretive subtext".

I always saw it more grunge. As in "the gods are dead.... and no one cares".

I think maybe we bring our own to it when it comes to that aspect.

Meanwhile, its undisputed themes are social inequality and environmental collapse. Pretty darn relevant today, I would think.

I agree. I think the only reason they are out is because they want Sorcerer Kings and Dragons to be unsurpassed. Apex predators. Without anyone to answer to. Not to mention that Sorcerer Kings are seen as gods by their followers. That wouldn’t make much sense of there were other gods in competition.

Q: “Why wouldn’t the gods step in”
A: “Let’s remove the gods”

Rather than “let’s design a world without gods and see what happens”

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I would disagree. Out in context of society in the 1990s, what happened on Athas is what happens when you lose religion.

The 90s saw a rapid expansion in religion and fundamentalism worldwide ..... Darksun is product of that era.

I just don't agree lol. I think that is a really wacky take on both points.

Especially in 1991 no-one was thinking that. I think you're backprojecting like, 1998 thinking to 1991.

I think today the prevailing opinion is exactly the opposite - that religion causes problems in society (not saying it does or doesn't).

The prevailing opinion where? Not the US where the book was written, not at either of those times.

EDIT - What is seemingly confusing you here I think is the apparent projection of your own opinions (or opinions you think people have) about religion, whereas the game setting absolutely does not say that. The main reason the gods are gone is so there's nobody to save you, and you can't just wait or write them a nice apology letter so they come back like Dragonlance. You're going to have to save yourselves! You can't just pray. All the "white knights" (Paladins) are dead and gone (very grunge). You - YOU - need to act to destroy the Sorcerer-Kings. No-one is going to do it for you and there's no chance of outside help.

It's the same reason the place is totally locked down re: magical travel and most of the planes (and a very different reason to Eberron), because they don't want the idea that a bunch of powerful adventurers from somewhere else could just come in and save you. You have to save yourselves.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I always saw it more grunge. As in "the gods are dead.... and no one cares".

Exactly. That is the late 1980s/early 1990s spirit it embodies.

Meanwhile, it's undisputed themes are social inequality and environmental collapse. Pretty darn relevant today, I would think.

Yes, and you encounter them continuously when you actually play it, where the gods stuff is a backstory element 100% irrelevant to day-to-day life, because literally no-one but maybe one or two of the Sorcerer-Kings even knows what it was like when the gods were around.

 

[Remathilis]

Yeah, that's why they should have stuck to their guns with Athas being totally destroyed.

Back in the 90s, there was still some hope.

That kinda is the crux of D&D design right now: hope vs despair.

5e has been mostly designing via hope. The world is not bad, only things in the world make it bad. This is a stark contrast to both 4e (points of light) and 2e (when a lot of settings had a upcoming apocalypse or was recovering from one). I think the wheel had turned from grimdark to hopelight as people seek escape from the dark uncertainty that modern life brings. I might not be able to change our world, but I can sure as hell pretend to save Faerun!

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

That is what happened because the Gods Abandoned Athas. There were Gods during the Green Age, but they either left on their own accord or were driven away by Elementals. Either way the morals left with them and you ended up with the Dragon, Defilers etc.

Look at the changes to PCs and classes: There are no Paladins in Dark Sun and Clerics are Elemental priests who are severely nerfed (nerfed from the standard 2E Cleric that was already weak). In terms of mechanics, these are the biggest two changes to the standard 2E rules and both of them are focused on Religion. There are other mechanical changes as well, but they are not as significant as these.



The main concept of the setting is without God(s) you end up with an amoral hellhole. That was a quite common way of thinking in the 90s and was a direct reaction to the moral relativism of the 80s, as the entire world became more religious and fundamentalist.

It certainly fits with the social fabric of the 90s. Especially the Dragons trying to impersonate and take the place of Gods

Not for nothing, but the upcoming FR book just included a whole genie themed paladin subclass; they could easily reprint that in a Dark Sun book and bam, you got paladins.

I could also see templars being a paladin subclass as much as a warlock one.