When Bob wants to play a female PC

[Mallus]

Another reason I don't allow it is that it makes the game become more silly to me than "cool". I don't even want to risk the chance of my game becoming childish because men think women always act like like hornballs. I try to run a more macho game than that.

I'm not criticizing your decision to ban PC drag in your game, but I can't help but notice some factual-type errors in the above text you posted. Allow me...

1) RPG's are silly. People pretend to be elves. Or vampires. Or space cops. Enough said.
2) RPG's aren't cool. No matter how many White Wolf fans dress in black and smoke. Ask most women.
3) RPG's are childish. More specifically, they are a complex and extended indulgence in (male-gendered) adolescent power fantasies.
4) Men don't think women "act like hornballs". Women think that about men. And they're absolutely right.

Note: "Macho" is now a derogatory terms that derides the person using it, without regard to context.

RPG's are also a hell of lot of fun, but its best to call a spade a shovel.

 

[TheYeti1775]

Rushing to defend my DM....

I'm the "Bob" in this case.

I had sent Destan a list of 3 backup characters in case of Magnus's death and non-raising.
1. Female Human Warmage - from a militant background. (Apian - Imperialist for those of you with the Valus sourcebook.)
2. Male Human Rogue/Sorc - (Rhelmsman) shifty and tends to hide his magical ability
3. Male Human Mystic Theruge - (undetermined country as of yet) Wizard/Cleric of Ammol

After I drew up the first and presented it to him, he mentioned about possibly changing the gender. I said sure, didn't have a real hang up with it. I thought I was doing good getting the Warmage in, we generally only play with the core rules plus the Valus.

After this post started it came to my attention, I find it odd everyone is blasting him. We talked about it a little in our group. A 'female' character does, within our campaign pose certain issues, we play a "R" campaign. (I say an "R" not out of sexually explicit or anything like that, but in the grittiness of it.) The evil guys are not above kidnapping and raping to punish various people.
I would like to thank Destan for believing I could pull it off successfully, I think it most of the "hang up" is that he didn't feel comfortable being put in the position of having to play his Evil Guys doing that to a PC, not anything to do with my cross-dressing gimp midget loving habits. (Inside Joke of the Players)
I changed a few things in the characters history, basically a possible female interest from the War College, both with the same assignment in different regions. Basically I changed female to male and vice versa within the character's history. I plan on more of a ladies man versus the casual flirt. Both are serious information gatherers, just different means using the same skill sets. Both are militant, hence the Apian Warmage. Didn't have to change much to enjoy the style of the character, the theme remains much the same with him as it did her. Yes there would have been instantances where I used her 'other skills' in gathering information, but so will he.

Honestly it didn't bother me, don't know why it bothered him to post.

Now if I wanted to bring a Galar Priest/Bard Pem(Gnome) that took a flute to band camp, well then even I would have the issue there.

So, don't fret Ryan I'm on your side.
And if you don't won't it to ever be an issue never let Magnus die irrecoverably.

Bill

 

[Dread October]

OK, I think I get where the origianal poster is coming from. If the player in question could play a female character without making people uneasy then maybe he'd have no problem with it. I have to tell you that it's next to impossible to judge what a "well played" female is like because many of us ARE NOT FEMALE.

Some guys like playiing the occasional female character because they want to try on the armored bikini. Lets call a spade a spade. We cannot discuss the objectification of elves because elves don't exist. Women do. If this were ACTING then we'd be doing some sort of cool gender study. One of those "This is what I see when I see you" sort of thing but it's not. It's a fantasy RPG and in that case the Bald Drunk Irish Cop in real life is gonna be a Bald Drunk Irish Cop in you game and he's gonna be female, play up that charisma, and do some sterotypical things that we'd rather he not.

He may even be a great player (like my cop friend). A DM has the right to ask a guy not to do something. Asking that males play males and females play females is essentiall the same as saying "No Evil Characters". He's not in any way stifling the guys creativity. Have any of us ever heard a player say "Man I like this character but when I hear his voice, he sounds like a girl"?

I would rather have my players stick to the genders they know. It makes for smooth playing. It eliminates Male players getting those "You have no idea" looks from my female players. Be an Elf the field is open.

If a player says "I just want to play a character who is like my wife", he is probably lying. He will end up playing himself wearing his wife's make up and chain mail armor.

Dread October

 

[ShadowDenizen]

AND....
Another vote for "Clowns are creepy."

 

[ST]

Lasher was a voice of humor in this thread, and I'm still scratching my head to see how anyone could take offense at anything he said.

It does seem like a preposterous question to me -- I'd never think of constraining what gender my players chose for their characters -- so my first response was amusement as well.

(That, and I've come to the conclusion that some of you have really low expectations out of your players. Associating cross-gender characters with a guy wanting to put on his wife's makeup? What the heck? If your players can't handle gender issues, how do they handle women in real life?)

 

[John Morrow]

Hum. I've failed to make my meaning clear and in retrospect, I suspect that my post is perhaps vaguely threatening to the "uncomfortable with it" crowd in ways that I did not intend.

Not threatening, just prone to be wrong. I think that one of the biggest mistakes that people make in these threads, when they try to understand the "motives" for something, is to find a one-size-fits-all answer and I simply don't think there is one in this case. For example, the people annoyed by pronoun confusion may exclude cross-gender characters for an entirely different reason than someone who is uncomfortable thinking of their male buddies as women. Similarly, the person who wants to explore their kinky fantasies may play a cross-gender character for entirely different reason than a player who simply has a normal character concept that would best be handled as a cross-gender character.

My wardrobe is next to my wife's. Every single garment in my wardrobe - suits, shirts, trousers, jeans, T-shirts, and even my kilt that I've worn exactly once in my life - every garment is one that my wife could wear in public without attracting a lot of attention.

If I wore her clothes in the street - well, most of them, I just couldn't. I'm British and it's just not socially possible for a British man to wear women's clothes (unless he's a High Court Judge). I can't even imagine doing it.

Why is that?

Again, for several reasons, some harmless and others not so harmless. I think your point is interesting and there is probably a valid analogy with cross-gender characters in some cases, but not all, which is my point. And while a group of gamers who will allow women to play men but not allow men to play women might(*) support your analogy, the people who are equally unhappy with men playing women and women playing men doesn't. In fact, it actually refutes your analogy.

(*) I can imagine several reasons why a GM might let a woman play a man and not allow a man to play a woman, ranging from sexist stereotypes to historical realities, that have nothing to do with why it's more acceptable for women to dress like men than men dress like women.

 

[Lasher Dragon]

Thank you ST.

Some people in here are reacting to me as though I were over at their house attempting to force them to go out in public in drag.

I can see it now, a bunch of gamers strolling down the street in their wive's finest, firmly clutching their PH's and DMG's.
LMAO

 

[John Morrow]

Summon away. If I am guilty let the Mods judge me. If I am found guilty, I will apologize right here in this thread.

Well, you'll have to start up the rude comments again.

 

[Lasher Dragon]

Why would I have to do anything other than what I have been doing? The mods can read everything I have posted, and if I am out of line, I would hope they would tell me.

 

[John Morrow]

Why would I have to do anything other than what I have been doing? The mods can read everything I have posted, and if I am out of line, I would hope they would tell me.

OK. Moderator opinion of both of us (to be fair) requested. Moderation is subjective and I'm curious where the line is, since I tend to err on the side of not calling out the moderators.