D&D General When do you overrule RAW?


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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I think your bias is really showing. First comparing a martial feat to a cantrip, and now this, when a martial only gets a few feats while a caster gets tens of spells (and scrolls and wands)... and those spell slots aren't even gone, they just cannot directly remove the problem, but can still be spent in alternative ways (buffing, healing, utility like teleporting).
The bias here is yours. Step back and look at it objectively like I am. I'm looking at the mechanics of Sentinal compared to the mechanics of a cantrip.

Sentinal: At will.
Cantrip: At will.
Sentinal mechanic: 1d20+mods to accomplish a 1 round effect.
Cantrip mechanic: 1d20+mods to accomplish a 1 round effect.

They are directly comparable in power and use. Comparing the Sentinal feat to a cantrip is only a slight if you are biased in your thinking.
You may not set out to hit one type of players more than the others, but that's what the end result of this type of misjudgement is.
So first off, no matter how you slice it(and your bias slices it rather oddly), it hits casters harder. D&D combat is about damage pure and simple and if you remove a 3rd(actually almost half) of the slots of the caster to do damage, you've hurt that caster much more than the removal of a single feat. It doesn't matter if the caster might possibly maybe be able to use the slots for utility in the middle of combat. He's still gimped in his use of cantrips-3rd level spells.

Drop the bias and you'll see it clearly.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
The thing was 35ish feet tall, not some impossible height. A high level party fighting that size, while not routine, isn't exactly unforeseeable. And it's not so tall that "standard" tactics shouldn't work.
I hadn't read the rest of the thread when posting that; I was under the impression the foe was Godzilla-sized.

That said, stopping something 35-ish feet tall (with, I assume, commensurate bulk) is still a lot to ask of a typical Human, even if said typical Human is a stupendous-level adventurer.
And if they don't, the DM needs to give the player some leeway - not gotcha them into wasting resources on something impossible.
Yes, I agree the ruling should have been made sooner in proceedings.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
I don't agree with everything he says, but I'm going to have to side with Gary on the whole topic of "realism" in D&D.
Realism.jpg
 


James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
And also:

"Interestingly, most of the variant systems which purport to “improve” the game are presented under the banner of realism. I have personally come to suspect that this banner is the refuge of scoundrels; whether the last or first refuge is immaterial. “Realism” has become a bugaboo in the hobby, and all too many of the publishers — TSR included — make offerings to this god too frequently."

"D&D is a make-believe game. It is designed, however, to facilitate close personal involvement in all aspects of play; this makes suspension of disbelief easier for those who can initially accept a game form which does not relate to any reality except a few tenuous areas... It is a game for the imaginative and fanciful, and perhaps for those who dream of adventure and derring-do in a world all too mundane. As a game must first and foremost be fun, it needs no claim to “realism” to justify its existence." -E.G.Gygax
 

Sentinal: At will.
Cantrip: At will.
Sentinal mechanic: 1d20+mods to accomplish a 1 round effect.
Cantrip mechanic: 1d20+mods to accomplish a 1 round effect.

They are directly comparable in power and use. Comparing the Sentinal feat to a cantrip is only a slight if you are biased in your thinking.
We're just ignoring the opportunity cost where Sentinel costs a feat, while you get all the cantrips you want in a few levels, and can even swap them out as you level if one isn't to your liking? Oh okay. That's not biased at all.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
We're just ignoring the opportunity cost where Sentinel costs a feat, while you get all the cantrips you want in a few levels, and can even swap them out as you level if one isn't to your liking? Oh okay. That's not biased at all.
Cantrips often can't be used due to resistances or other reason as well. And you're ignoring counterspells. And I agree that it's not biased at all. I have no bias here as fighters and wizards are my two favorite classes. Thanks for finally admitting that.
 


Oofta

Legend
And also:

"Interestingly, most of the variant systems which purport to “improve” the game are presented under the banner of realism. I have personally come to suspect that this banner is the refuge of scoundrels; whether the last or first refuge is immaterial. “Realism” has become a bugaboo in the hobby, and all too many of the publishers — TSR included — make offerings to this god too frequently."

"D&D is a make-believe game. It is designed, however, to facilitate close personal involvement in all aspects of play; this makes suspension of disbelief easier for those who can initially accept a game form which does not relate to any reality except a few tenuous areas... It is a game for the imaginative and fanciful, and perhaps for those who dream of adventure and derring-do in a world all too mundane. As a game must first and foremost be fun, it needs no claim to “realism” to justify its existence." -E.G.Gygax
There's always going to be a balancing act, one that may vary from game to game table to table.

On the one extreme you try to model reality as much as possible. You'll have to make some compromises for simplicity of course but it would be a game were a single arrow or lucky blow can kill someone. Where you can survive the battle only to die of sepsis.

On the other extreme you have a toons game where a bomb goes off in your face and you cough out some smoke and your face is blackened by the soot.

D&D tries to find a happy medium between the two. It will always be up to the DM and group to fine tune that balance in a way that makes sense to them. For some groups that means you can fall from orbit because falling damage is capped at 20 d6. For others, at a certain point if you fall far enough you die.

There is no one true way.
 

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