When Fiendform Ends does Effects End?

[RJSmalls]

If I have an effect (effect#2) that depends on the existence of another effect (effect#1) and effect #1 ends, does that mean that effect#2, even though its duration isn't up, ends as a result of the created paradox?

Example: I Fiendform into an Erinyes. Fiendform is good for 1minute/level. At level 13, it;s good for 13 minutes. Let's call that effect#1 (Fiendform). While an Erinyes, I cast Polymorph Self and change into a Hippogriff with the intent of flying my buddies over a mountain range. Let's call that Poly Self effect#2. Poly Self is a Spell-like ability of the Erinyes as cast by an 8th level sorc, which means the effect lasts 8 hours. What happens 13 minutes into the Fiendform spell? Obviously I'm not an Erinyes anymore since Fiendform ended. Does my Poly Self effect abruptly end with 7 hrs 47 minutes remaining per the book?

 

[Iron_Chef]

My guess is yes, you lose all effects of being that particular fiend, and any spell-like or supernatural abilities that would otherwise be in effect end immediately when you return to your own form.

Too bad you can't cast permanency on fiendform, allowing you to become that fiend forever, hehe.

 

[Olive]

yes, definitely.

 

[Zerovoid]

I would say the effect definatly stays around. If you kill a wizard who has cast Polymorph Other on a creature, that wouldn't dispel the spell. Once a spell is cast, its effects normally persist for its entire duration due to the inherent power of the spell. It doesn't matter what happens to the caster.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does Fiendform change your Type to Outsider for the duration of the spell?

-Hyp.

 

[Sejs]

Yes, yes it does.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hmm. So if you Fiendform into an Erinyes, and then cast Polymorph Self (as a true spell, not the devil's SLA) to turn into, for example, a Djinni - possible since you're currently an Outsider - what happens when Fiendform wears off?

Your type reverts to humanoid, so you can no longer Polymorph into an Outsider... but does your current Polymorph remain in effect until it expires or is dispelled?

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

See, all these problems go away if you just ban fiendform.

 

[Hypersmurf]

We tried that logic on the moderators once.

"All of our problems would go away if you'd just ban hong!"

But they're purists, y'see, and would rather work to integrate problems in non-disruptive fashion, rather than banning them outright

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Lets consider the first question, which is can a spell duration continue past it's users ability to cast the spell?

I think the answer is 'yes'. Otherwise, for example, a wizard's spells would all expire when he died, became polymorphed into a shape without the ability to use the relevant components, became stoned, lost intelligence etc.

Since there is at least one point in the rules where the disappearance of a caster DOES stop an ongoing spell - a summoned caster's spells stop when he goes home - I think we have to assume that they normally don't.

So - the spell is regarded as an independant entity once cast, and is self sustaining unless something specifically says otherwise. Agreed?

Now - does a spell continue to function on a subject when the subject becomes an invalid target of a spell (ie - hypersmurf's question)?

If it doesn't, then dying effectively removes a whole host of irritating conditions (because a 'creature' becomes an 'object') - ie any spell with a duration that's not instant will cease operating after death. An even cheaper way of removing such spells would be to use 'stone to flesh' and 'flesh to stone'.

Interestingly, 'soul bind' could be removed from someone by simply animating their corpse as an undead creature (the spell requires a corpse as a target, and has a duration of permanent...)

If you remain a valid target, regardless of transformations, then you can do interesting things like use a permanent shrink item followed by animate dead to create pocket skeletons, or create undead that have been affected by spells which require fort saves by casting the spell on a person, killing them and raising them as undead.

Also, this interpretation would mean that polymorph's "parts seperated from a creature" and "dead creature" reversion sections would be necessary - if you cease being a valid target for a spell by being dead, or merely an object, those lines would be unnecessary (this is just another small part of evidence - it's hardly conclusive).

Can anyone think of other bizarre consequences for either interpretation?