When is LA worth it?

[AuraSeer]

In what situations does it make sense to take a "powerful" race, with LA >0, rather than a standard one? I've been toying with the numbers a little bit, and so far it looks like the PH races usually come out ahead.

Dedicated casters always want to avoid LA because it hurts their spell progression. To a lesser extent the same is true of classes that depend on special abilities, like druids and monks. So I'd expect most LA PCs to be of the fighting classes, yet the advantage they get from higher ability scores seems to be offset by lower BAB and saves, and delayed access to feats.

Of course there are always RP reasons to play a nonstandard race. My next PC will probably be a hobgoblin, just to add some diversity to the party. But when it comes down to the numbers, is an LA race ever really worth it?

 

[Crothian]

I don't think so. In one game I'm in we are all half dragons, and it's not that great. I'm the equivilent of 4th level yet I only got 15 HPs.....I've played 4th level wizards with more HPS....

 

[Scion]

They are worth it sometimes, even for caster types on occasion. But the cost is very high, for pretty much everyone.

Each level lost isnt a linear change, it is more of a quadratic.

But in any event, generally it is worth it when you can be good at what you want to be good at.

There are a few races that get some very intersting bonuses, and combining them with classes works out pretty well. Just work with the dm to find out what LA they will place on them. Many races with hd req's have LA as well, usually making you pay twice for the same abilities. Keeping in mind that having to pay in hd is also a cost, just not always as bad as a flat LA, would help to keep LA more in check.

A race that has 3 racial hd (d4's), only a good will save, an extra ability of 'spinning a web once per day that can be used like a tanglefoot bag', and casts spells as a third level sorc, does not warrant an LA at all. No matter what various books have said


But mostly it still comes down to one thing, can you still be competitive with others of your effective level, can you be good at what you choose, and can you have fun. Sometimes one of those overrides the rest (such as, if you choose class X then you are somewhat better than anyone else chooseing class X of the same level, but also horrible at any other classes, so it doesnt warrant enough for an extra LA without extra abilities.. type of thing ), but for the most part they hold true.

Most la's out there arent quite useable because they fall into the trap of, 'it cant be as good as one of the phb races' or some other equally inane thought like, 'it has a +2 cha! it must be at least +1 LA!'.

So, if the LA fits within your scopes of what you would like to do, and you are reasonably well attuned with people of your same effective level then it is fine, if not then there is a problem

 

[James McMurray]

Never ake an LA unless your hit dice will be at least equal to your AL, or you'll find yourself in the situation that Crothian is in: not enough hit points.

 

[Pax]

I don't think so. In one game I'm in we are all half dragons, and it's not that great. I'm the equivilent of 4th level yet I only got 15 HPs.....I've played 4th level wizards with more HPS....

You should have followed the same rule I now impose on characters made for any game I ever run, based on my g/f's experience with exactly the sort of character you describe - an ECL(4) half-dragon, with only one hit die. And she was in a part of only third level characters (her XP was the same as theirs, it would've just been that much longer before she levelled up - I was treating her as ECL3 for the time being).

She was literally a paper tiger; she had NO staying power in combat. A party of five characters, and she was the "frontline fighter" ... yet she had to fall back out of combat after two rounds, in serious danger of being dropped well below 0 with the next hit. Against nothing more than three 1st-level-warrior drow (and their third-level cleric leader, who bailed after only one round of combat).

So. The rule I now use, universally, is: no more than havle your ECL may come from LA; the other half MUST come from actual hit dice (racial or class based, doesn't matter ... HD are HD).

So, I don't allow starting Halfdragons at less than ECL6 .. which is enough for them to have three hit dice.

Level Adjustment's "increasing slope of difference" effect can be ameliorated partly by using the "Reducing Level Adjustmen" variant in Unearthed Arcana. I'll definitely be offering that option for my face-to-face game when we get together tomorrow. Two of them are Genasi, and everyone is ECL4 (making them third-level characters, LA aside), so now is "do or die" time for them both.

As for "when is LA worth it" ... that all depends on what sort of character you're building. While, yes, most 'casters want to avoid most LA races ... that's not always the case. For example, the Nixie, right from the MM1, is a +2 LA race that I think is the single best core-rules race for Sorcerors. They're amphibious, they're small (harder to hit, and a key +1 to hit bonus which any 'caster will appreciate), and they're much more likely to survive a melee whack or two, with their DR of "5/cold iron".

Most importantly, though, is their racial Charisma modifier of +6 ...!! Taken with the DR, being amphibious, an the incidentl benefits of being Small, that makes them a +2 LA race that any sorceror can live with taking. Yes, you'll be an extra spell level behind ... but, you'll also be more able to survive due to the uncommon-to-PC-races DR type, and ... what spells you DO have, will be all the better (+3 save DC, and significantly more bonus spells).

So, it's all a matter of looking at what you're trying to build, and comparing the costs with the benefits ... and then making the call yourself. ^_^

 

[devoblue]

My next PC will probably be a hobgoblin, just to add some diversity to the party. But when it comes down to the numbers, is an LA race ever really worth it?

The problem with the hobgoblin specifically is that it is one of the lamest LA+1 races around. If it were LA 0, it would be slightly better than a dwarf. Compared to an Aasimar, Hobgoblins just suck. Depending on the campaign, there are probably elf racial variants that are LA 0 and are better than the hobgoblin.

Try one of the following instead:

• Play a goblin, they rock!
• Get your DM to lower the LA by dropping either the dex or con bonus
• Get your DM to throw in a +2 Str to make it worth LA +1

In answer to your more general question regarding lack of hit points, I agree with other posters who suggest the UA variant that allows the LA +1 to disappear after 3rd level. If you start the character from here you can take the standard hobgoblin race for a cost of only 1000xp and no other penalties.

 

[shilsen]

When is LA worth it?

When you're not playing a dedicated spellcaster class.

When you have more (preferably a lot more) class levels than the LA. A half-dragon half-human Ftr3 (ECL 6) is just about on par with a human Ftr6, but a half-dragon half-human Ftr10 (ECL 13) is much more powerful than a human Ftr13.

When the chosen race/template has abilities that significantly augment the chosen class. Githzerai monk - good. Githzerai fighter - not as good. Githzerai wizard - lousy.

 

[Thanee]

LA is worth it, if LA is zero.

Other than that, LA is only worth it, if you are not a dedicated spellcaster and the abilities you gain by taking the race with LA are equal or better than what you would gain with additional class levels on top of the ones you already have. That's rarely if ever the case, usually only with extremely low LA anyways.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Crothian]

LA is worth in in very specific cases to fit a particuliar concept or idea....other then that I really don't like it.

 

[Deset Gled]

LA is worth in in very specific cases to fit a particuliar concept or idea....other then that I really don't like it.

Which is, coincidentally, exactly the way that (IMHO) LA should work.

I agree with most people that LA races have a tendency to be underpowered in many situations, don't fit many of the D+D archtypes well, etc, but I'm also really happy with that. Better to err on the side of underpowerment than err on the side of overpowerment when it comes to this kind of mechanic. It's a lot easier for a DM to occasionally make a houserule to power up a character than be forced to add houserules to power a character down.