Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
When (or can) the fiction overrides the DM?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8772962" data-attributes="member: 6801252"><p>I think one big thing here: where does fiction come from? what is a valid source of fiction in a roleplaying game and why? Does the fiction overriding the GM imply that there is some platonic ideal of what the narrative ought to look like, which needs to be course corrected if the mechanics and roleplaying don't emergently produce that narrative? Is it the players idea of what that story looks like, or is it the GMs? If it's the GMs then isn't the GM doing the overriding anyway? </p><p></p><p>Personally, I'm of the viewpoint that plot is a red herring, the game is a narratively rich space wherein one experiences "play" rather than a structured stroy that makes demands of its participants, and whatever actually happens should be accepted as the fiction. I think that the world of that fiction might change from the GM's notes as they adjust their own notes during and between sessions, whether because they think an element would be fun to introduce or whatever-- sometimes (though not all the time) a player thinking there might be a secret door somewhere might be something the GM internally says "Good Idea" to and rolls with it. </p><p></p><p>But you can't do it too often or too transparently because it changes the way the players experience the story in the same way that a writer doesn't experience a story the same way their reader does, like, you can and that's a perfectly acceptable way to play SOMETHING, but you give things up to get there. I see the notion of a fiction that makes demands as a sacred cow in terms of how a roleplaying game is usually played, where authorial control disrupts the fun. But obviously, you can have a storytelling game that is more about direct authorship of a narrative in a collaborative way and that can be fun too. </p><p></p><p>Because you can have both of these things, you can further have fun things that are on spectrums between them or combine them in some way, and that's where a lot of the experimentation in the medium tends to come from right now-- controlled authorship partially applied to that emergent space.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The-Magic-Sword, post: 8772962, member: 6801252"] I think one big thing here: where does fiction come from? what is a valid source of fiction in a roleplaying game and why? Does the fiction overriding the GM imply that there is some platonic ideal of what the narrative ought to look like, which needs to be course corrected if the mechanics and roleplaying don't emergently produce that narrative? Is it the players idea of what that story looks like, or is it the GMs? If it's the GMs then isn't the GM doing the overriding anyway? Personally, I'm of the viewpoint that plot is a red herring, the game is a narratively rich space wherein one experiences "play" rather than a structured stroy that makes demands of its participants, and whatever actually happens should be accepted as the fiction. I think that the world of that fiction might change from the GM's notes as they adjust their own notes during and between sessions, whether because they think an element would be fun to introduce or whatever-- sometimes (though not all the time) a player thinking there might be a secret door somewhere might be something the GM internally says "Good Idea" to and rolls with it. But you can't do it too often or too transparently because it changes the way the players experience the story in the same way that a writer doesn't experience a story the same way their reader does, like, you can and that's a perfectly acceptable way to play SOMETHING, but you give things up to get there. I see the notion of a fiction that makes demands as a sacred cow in terms of how a roleplaying game is usually played, where authorial control disrupts the fun. But obviously, you can have a storytelling game that is more about direct authorship of a narrative in a collaborative way and that can be fun too. Because you can have both of these things, you can further have fun things that are on spectrums between them or combine them in some way, and that's where a lot of the experimentation in the medium tends to come from right now-- controlled authorship partially applied to that emergent space. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
When (or can) the fiction overrides the DM?
Top