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When (or can) the fiction overrides the DM?
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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 8773635" data-attributes="member: 6684958"><p>I agree. A DM that gets surprised and has something wacky happen because of that, does not fit changing fiction. That is just a DM problem. </p><p></p><p>Though the PCs digging a new tunnel has nothing to do with "the fiction". And a player randomly creating things is just cheating. </p><p></p><p></p><p>That is a nice story, but it does not fit the question. Everything still happened the way you wanted it too. You chose to toss the monster away and chose to give it some super water weakness. </p><p></p><p>Of course, your long post is a lot of set up, but then has no details of that final fight. From what you typed it sounds like the players came up with the wacky idea, and you just said "it works". Though they had to roll to destroy the monster? Why did the "fiction" say the monster would just auto walk into the trap? </p><p></p><p>It's a lot more like you had a "Linear Plot Idea"(aka the "R" thing that shall not be mentioned), then when your players had a wacky idea, you suddenly changed it.</p><p></p><p>----------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p>If we count "The Fiction" as everything except the game rules and mechanics, that is a good start. And that everything is all on the DM (with yes a two copper input from some players sometimes). So the DM can make, break, change, or do whatever they want to the Everything Fiction.</p><p></p><p>A DM can say "no elves are allowed to join the Dark Dreamers group", and then have an elf member of that group show up (with some unique history of how she joined). </p><p></p><p>The DM can say "all members of the Order of Holy Light must destroy all undead on sight", and then have members let a good undead PC go.</p><p></p><p>There really can't be any time where the DM has set some fiction, then later decides to change something, that it's not ALL the DMs doing. Sure, the DM can say they changed things because they "thought it fit the story better" or "liked their new idea better", but that is still just the DM changing things. </p><p></p><p>The DM can't change things "against their will" : they have to agree to change things for them to happen. And if, somehow, a DM was backed in a corner.......tht DM can STILL do whatever they want.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 8773635, member: 6684958"] I agree. A DM that gets surprised and has something wacky happen because of that, does not fit changing fiction. That is just a DM problem. Though the PCs digging a new tunnel has nothing to do with "the fiction". And a player randomly creating things is just cheating. That is a nice story, but it does not fit the question. Everything still happened the way you wanted it too. You chose to toss the monster away and chose to give it some super water weakness. Of course, your long post is a lot of set up, but then has no details of that final fight. From what you typed it sounds like the players came up with the wacky idea, and you just said "it works". Though they had to roll to destroy the monster? Why did the "fiction" say the monster would just auto walk into the trap? It's a lot more like you had a "Linear Plot Idea"(aka the "R" thing that shall not be mentioned), then when your players had a wacky idea, you suddenly changed it. ---------------------------------------------------- If we count "The Fiction" as everything except the game rules and mechanics, that is a good start. And that everything is all on the DM (with yes a two copper input from some players sometimes). So the DM can make, break, change, or do whatever they want to the Everything Fiction. A DM can say "no elves are allowed to join the Dark Dreamers group", and then have an elf member of that group show up (with some unique history of how she joined). The DM can say "all members of the Order of Holy Light must destroy all undead on sight", and then have members let a good undead PC go. There really can't be any time where the DM has set some fiction, then later decides to change something, that it's not ALL the DMs doing. Sure, the DM can say they changed things because they "thought it fit the story better" or "liked their new idea better", but that is still just the DM changing things. The DM can't change things "against their will" : they have to agree to change things for them to happen. And if, somehow, a DM was backed in a corner.......tht DM can STILL do whatever they want. [/QUOTE]
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When (or can) the fiction overrides the DM?
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