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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8775298" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I got distracted looking up other things, so I'll note here that I (only just) edited that post to include the trope's reverse twin, Ron the Death Eater, so I'll explain both.[SPOILER="Aside unrelated to the thread"]I dislike DILP because it's willful blindness. It's making excuses for unrepentant jerks (or, frequently, much worse), glamorizing characters who do terrible things, and covering up, denying, or whitewashing their deeds. This is done, in the vast majority of cases, because the character is either (a) physically attractive, (b) perceived as having a (TVTropes term) "Freudian Excuse" or being the universe's butt monkey, or (c) more interesting than other characters because they get more freedom of characterization. (This third point is also often why the "lancer" character in a given work is often more popular than the hero character.)If an author wishes to have a character that merits this kind of treatment, they should write that character. E.g. Prince Zuko from ATLA. He's a prime-time ultra-sympathetic character practically from the minute he's introduced, and the writing for his character earns forgiveness for his past deeds and shows, in almost painful detail, exactly how much he struggles to change his ways. DILP takes that whole process and says, "Nah, I'm just gonna pretend this terrible person did all of that. And then give them the smooches they truly deserve." It's not just a matter of ruining villainous characters, either; the DILP trope wishes away the consequences of wicked deeds. As someone who passionately believes in the power of fiction as a tool to teach moral lessons, applying Draco In Leather Pants to a character who has done wrong and needs to be called out is not just missing the point, but actively trying to subvert it.I dislike RTDE for exactly the same reasons, just reversed. Instead of character whitewashing, it's character assassination. It turns flawed but otherwise good people into horrible monsters, often for no reason other than so a particular relationship can work out as desired by a fan (or, to be more specific, as desired by a fanfic author.) Where DILP ruins villains, whitewashing evil and subverting any value that can be obtained from the moral implications of a work, RTDE ruins heroes, turning minor or passing faults into unforgivable sins and poisoning the examples we should learn from or even aspire to.When combined (as they often, but not always, are), this results in a warped world where egregious villainy is excused, often for petty and selfish reasons, while minor imperfections are inflated into eternal damnation. It entrenches a narrative of forgiving the beautiful and punishing the imperfect. I hope I don't have to explain why that particular ideology is a problem.Don't get me wrong, I love a good redemption arc, and well-written antivillains are some of my favorite characters ever (I love Mr. Freeze, for example, absolutely my favorite Batman villain.) I also appreciate, though don't quite "love," a good corruption arc. If the temptation is real, then at least some of the time, it should actually succeed at tempting! Likewise, I appreciate it when characters are nuanced: a hero who has done bad things in the past but is committed to her new life, a villain who has very good reasons for being upset but still does horrible things. (I play FFXIV, I kinda have to like villains like that.) But it ultimately cashes out as "cool motive, still murder."[/SPOILER]Which, I suppose, presents another example here. If you write a villain, you can't just turn around and then declare that they're sympathetic and just...have that be true. Because that's really bad writing, and because the people who decide whether the villain is sympathetic or not are the players, not you. Instead of just fiat declaring it, you need to build up to it, as the writers of ATLA did with Zuko. It needs to be a process, an unveiling, a planting of seeds that will only flower much later.</blockquote>

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