When Player Driven Adventures Don't Pan Out

[Tonguez]

Why would the act of pursuing goals have a mechanical effect? What kind of effect would you expect it to have?

Inspiration, Advantage, Bonus XP

As to Why - It incentivises players to proactively pursue goals

 

[Micah Sweet]

Inspiration, Advantage, Bonus XP

As to Why - It incentivises players to proactively pursue goals

Ah, narrative stuff. Not my thing. I prefer rewards to be grounded in the setting. XP for completing for pursuing your PC's goals is just XP. Nothing "bonus" about it.

 

[zarionofarabel]

Ah, narrative stuff. Not my thing. I prefer rewards to be grounded in the setting. XP for completing for pursuing your PC's goals is just XP. Nothing "bonus" about it.

But, Inspiration and Advantage are mechanical effects, aren't they? Those are both mechanical things. So called "setting stuff" would be the narrative things would it not? Like a PC getting their own castle isn't a mechanical thing, it's a narrative one.

Or did I completely misinterpret what you are saying?

I know in Burning Wheel the pursuit and completion of goals has direct mechanical incentive and benefit as it provides PCs with a unique type of XP that they can't get any other way.

 

[Reynard]

But, Inspiration and Advantage are mechanical effects, aren't they? Those are both mechanical things. So called "setting stuff" would be the narrative things would it not? Like a PC getting their own castle isn't a mechanical thing, it's a narrative one.

Or did I completely misinterpret what you are saying?

I know in Burning Wheel the pursuit and completion of goals has direct mechanical incentive and benefit as it provides PCs with a unique type of XP that they can't get any other way.

I think Micah is talking about diagetic rewards -- that is, following a characters motivations leads to rewards in the fiction, not on the character sheet.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But, Inspiration and Advantage are mechanical effects, aren't they? Those are both mechanical things. So called "setting stuff" would be the narrative things would it not? Like a PC getting their own castle isn't a mechanical thing, it's a narrative one.

Or did I completely misinterpret what you are saying?

I know in Burning Wheel the pursuit and completion of goals has direct mechanical incentive and benefit as it provides PCs with a unique type of XP that they can't get any other way.

Say rather that all that reads as "meta" to me, as in unconnected to the setting in which play takes place. It is a level above the PC, meant to support a particular narrative with mechanical rewards. I don't personally hold with that, and avoid such things when practical to do so.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think Micah is talking about diagetic rewards -- that is, following a characters motivations leads to rewards in the fiction, not on the character sheet.

At least, not exclusively on the character sheet, yes. Mechanical rewards are fine by me if they are associated with a real thing in the fiction.

 

[DEFCON 1]

You are making a bunch of assumptions that don't apply.

Of you players? Of course. I have no idea how they feel about how the game has been run. But you asked about our experiences, so I was giving you mine. And in my experience, players don't want to just think up quests and adventures on their own.. especially if they are meant to lead to a set destination. Selecting from three to six options that have been laid out in front of them is much more manageable than coming up with ideas completely on their own.

Take it for what you will. If what I've said doesn't apply, that's cool.

 

[Reynard]

Of you players? Of course. I have no idea how they feel about how the game has been run. But you asked about our experiences, so I was giving you mine. And in my experience, players don't want to just think up quests and adventures on their own.. especially if they are meant to lead to a set destination. Selecting from three to six options that have been laid out in front of them is much more manageable than coming up with ideas completely on their own.

Yes. I am not certain why you would assume that wasn't the case. But, like I said upthread, I probably should have defined terms in the OP.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Just because there's a high stakes situation simmering away in the background doesn't mean the PCs have to specifically engage with it all the time, especially if they're just not strong enough to tackle it. They can and IMO should pursue their own personal goals and play the long game.

But do they know when they are meant to tackle it? How long is the so-called "long game"? Is it meant to be in three levels? Six? Not until they are in the high teens? I can't speak for Reynard's players... but if I was at this table and knew the endgame was this Big Bad and was also told "Go do stuff in the meantime. Whatever you want!"... my thoughts would not be to just go looking for dungeons to crawl or caravans to escort. Not when I have no idea when this BBEG is showing up or I'm meant to engage with him.

That's just one of the possible issues that might be at play here as to why the players are not engaging with pursuing their own personal goals. Now it might not be the actual issue for the players... none of us have any idea why they are choosing not to engage with the player-facing adventuring... but it's an idea to consider. If it ends up being wrong... so be it.

 

[overgeeked]

The trick with player-driven gaming is to make sure the PCs each have several really solid, specific, and actionable goals baked in before you start play. Short term, mid term, and long term. Though, of course, they can change and update over time. Just having a solid start and end goal with everything in between as loose is going to fall apart. It's the loose middle you get in a lot of novels.

I can't recommend enough the Game Master's Handbook of Proactive Roleplaying.