When the DM seems to be offering to let you cheat

[Quasqueton]

The fight with the BBEG has run several rounds. The both sides of the fight are wounded and worn. The battle could easily go either way; the BBEG may go down soon, or the PCs may start dropping in domino fashion. The PC fighter lunges forward and swings at the BBEG.

Attack roll is made, "AC 24" says the Player.

The DM looks down at the AC 25 on the BBEG's sheet. "Do you have any bonuses you're forgetting?"

"I don't think so."

"Well, check quickly, and just make sure you haven't overlooked something."

"Ummm, well..."


If you were the Player(s) in this scenario, did the DM just offer a chance to cheat or fudge? If you think so, do you take the opportunity to do so, with the DM's approval?


I've been the DM in this kind of situation a few times. I do not like cheating, and I do not fudge for or against the PCs. My opinion on the subject is well documented in our game group. But I know that sometimes a Player forgets to add in the bard's song bonus, or a bless spell bonus, or that he is not using Power Attack on this swing, or something. I have seen many times a Player say, "I hit AC 23. ... No, AC 24. ... Oh, I mean 25." Same thing with saving throws.

So in my situations, when I've asked a Player to double check his numbers, I'm not offering a chance to cheat. And fortunately, I don't think my Players have ever taken my prompting that way. In fact, once the Player reduced his result because he remembered that a duration had expired. But in thinking on it, I can see where some may think my prompting was trying to get the Players to "cheat for their own good".

Would you take such prompting as a chance to cheat? If you thought so, would you take the chance?

Quasqueton

 

[Rystil Arden]

I do this as a DM all the time, and I'm not trying to let my players cheat. I find it actually makes battles go very quickly if I only ask the PCs to absolutely remember obscure situational modifiers when the roll is very close. This cuts both on near-hits and near-misses though, so they might miss because of my prompting. At high levels, when the player rolls an 18 and I know that this is ballpark of modified 40, whereas the enemy AC is 29, there is no need to even ask the bonus, but when they roll a 7, which is ballpark modified 29, then I need to ask.

 

[Brain]

Would you take such prompting as a chance to cheat? If you thought so, would you take the chance?

Definitely not. I would take it as a chance to check my bonuses and ask if the bard song was or check to see if I was on high ground or something. I would assume that it is just an important situation where being correct is more crucial to your survival. If I hit AC 24, and after checking it is still 24, that's it.

In short, I agree with your take on things.

 

[wandmlaw]

As long as the player is not allowed to change their action to get another bonus, it's not cheating-- for instance, if they simply added stuff wrong, or forgot they are subject to a +1 spell bonus from the cleric, that's not cheating, it's just double checking your numbers (however the GM vs. Player style gamer might think it's cheating because if a player forgets a bonus, they lose it). But if after prompting, the player says, "Oh yeah, I forgot to activate my +1 attack broach-- but I did it." Then that's cheating because it actually changes what the player did.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

It could also be a situation where the DM knows the player is forgetting something, but doesn't want to come out and say it. I certainly wouldn't look on it as giving permission for cheating. I do this quite a lot in my games, and that's not my intention.

If it was something like high ground, or bless, etc - I would ask if the player is adding those things, but there could be certain things that I might not want to come out and say.

 

[Arnwyn]

If you were the Player(s) in this scenario, did the DM just offer a chance to cheat or fudge?

No, not in my eyes. Looks like the DM is getting worried that some people might start getting killed, or is exasperated at my crappiness, and is hoping we'll do better.

As a DM, I've done the same thing, and my players know what I'm getting at.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

No, that is not an invitation to cheat. That's an invitation to take half a minute or so trying to dredge up any bonus you may have forgotten or to look over your character sheet again.

It may be an opportunity to plead for circumstantial bonuses.

We've got one player we're all pretty sure cheats-- but since that's normally the only opportunity he gets to be even vaguely involved in what's happening, we politely ignore it. We catch anyone else cheating, and it's Wild West rules.

 

[Akrasia]

...
Would you take such prompting as a chance to cheat? If you thought so, would you take the chance?
...

As a player, I would not view this a a 'prompt' to cheat.

As a DM, even if I felt it was important that the player hit the BBEG (since it would result in a TPK otherwise, or mess up the campaign, etc.), I can't understand why I would feel the need to prompt the player to cheat. Instead, I would just decide that the BBEG in fact has an AC of 24 (maybe he stepped on something slippery -- blood! -- at the moment he was hit), tell the player his PC hit, and move on.

If a DM feels the need to 'bend the rules' in a given instance, she should do it herself, and not 'force' the player to cheat.

 

[the Jester]

If you were the Player(s) in this scenario, did the DM just offer a chance to cheat or fudge? If you think so, do you take the opportunity to do so, with the DM's approval?

Quasqueton

I've been both the player and the dm in that situation, and I never even considered that it could be seen as an invitation to cheat.

We forget boni all the time, and if we've already moved on to something else, it's too damn bad.

 

[Crothian]

don't worry about it, if there ar ebonuses people are forgetting then it is good to be reminded of them. No buig deal.