when the unimportant details are a little too interesting...

[GrayIguana]

Sandpoint

I'm winding up a very complicated high level adventure as well, and in a few weeks we are going to start new PCs in Sandpoint. In my homebrews, I normally make up a lot of things/tangents for the PCs to pursue, but in this case I'm just running the Pathfinder adventure as is. If the PCs go to Chopper's Island, (or The Old Light) I'll just have one of the events in the plot bring them back into the story line. Though I might drop a goblin-snake in there somewhere. I guess it also depends if you are running Burnt Offerings or just using Sandpoint without the written adventure. I get the impression you're only using the town without the plot.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

You can see bits of it here: http://webpages.charter.net/ericnoah/noahrpg/westernshore/index.htm under Player's Guide and House Rules.

We then developed benefits for being in the guild to help encourage membership:

1) 25% discount on magic items purchased, provided they are of an arcane (not divine) nature.

2) 50% discount on wizardly and alchemical items. Wizardly items would include things like blank spellbooks, material component pouches, etc. Alchemical items are things like acid, alchemist's fire, etc.

3) You can sell magic items to the guild for 75% of their value instead of the usual 50% I dole out when selling to a normal merchant. You can also sell gems, unusual monster parts, alchemical ingredients, etc, at a similar rate.

4) You can claim a reward/bounty for turning in discovered spellbooks and scrolls that have new/currently unknown spells in them. Will have to come up with a price scheme, but thinking somewhere around 200 gp per spell level.

5) You are required to turn in discovered spellbooks/scrolls/wands/other items that have forbidden spells on them. Guild will pay a similar bounty as for new/unknown spells.

6) You have access to masterwork tools of various types that you can use at guild facilities.

7) You have access to libraries of information that can help you in different kinds of Knowledge skill research. Different guild branches will have different materials and the quality of the materials may also vary.

8) Wizard-type characters who need to learn spells as they go up in levels (or at other times) can gain new spells for a reduced price, to be determined.

That all sound excellent to me, I really like the idea of a Wizards Guild with some actual benefits. I can see why your players went for it.

What's the penalty for NOT being a member? If you don't want your players to get too involved in Guild business then I'd suggest it was fairly quiet - simply not having the benefits is a pretty stiff penalty anyway.

I'd suggest running with it, but not making too much of the Church / Guild stuff - if you don't play it up too much in favour of other things then the players hopefully won't worry too much about it.

 

[Mithran]

What are the downsides of being part of the guild? Seems like there ought to be some, since those are all mighty nice benefits.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

I made a few (what I thought were) flavor-based changes to some of the D&D assumptions (chiefly there is a large, powerful politically-oriented church, so there isn't the normal D&D freedom to simply pick a god and be a cleric...)

Your mistake was using a common plot trope as a background element:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PathOfInspiration

Path Of Inspiration
A religion that appears benign, but was carefully designed from the ground up long ago for a nefarious purpose, usually either to force the subjects of a state to behave as its founders would wish, frequently specifically to never attempt to rise in station or do anything but what they're told (popular with constructed state religions), or to empower an evil god or force without anyone realizing that said god or force is in fact evil. The end result is a Villain With Good Publicity. This church is widespread in a large country or even the world, and accepted without question -- after all, questioning the Path of Inspiration is a heresy punishable by death. Members are sometimes clearly brainwashed from an outside perspective.

A specific subtype of Ancient Conspiracy. Distinct from the Corrupt Church in that instead of being a legitimate religion that went bad, the Path of Inspiration is by design rotten to the core.

If you introduce ANYTHING into a story that even smells like a familiar plot element from somewhere else, the players will pick up on it, unless it was particularly obscure. What you did was like describing a typical tavern scene thusly.

"The tavern is warm and lively, and bustling with activity. The barkeep is shouting to the barmaid to hurry up. The raucious and drunken dwarves in the corner shout at every throw of their dice, winning and losing gold on every toss. A pair of elves sit at one table, talking amongst themselves. A balor sits in the far corner enjoying a fine beer. The band is playing a lively tune, and a well dressed Bard in wearing a yellow cloak is singing a ballad about a fallen hero. The song is great, and some of the patrons are dancing".

There is no way you can mention that to your players without them wanting to know more about the Balor. You may have decided he is just a Balor who likes to have a decent pint of beer from time to time. He is non hostile, and has nothing to do with the plot. You may have even told the players to go to this tavern to look for a Bard in a yellow cloak. None of that matters any more because YOU PUT A BALOR IN THE BAR!

The players have been trained by plenty of fiction and plenty of previous games to be on the look out for things like large religious organizations that do anything even remotely out of keeping from their general expectations of a D&D game.

If you intend to keep the background element in place, your going to have to do something that will satisfy the players that the organization is nothing more than a background annoyance. If you were even planning on using that church as a plot trope, then you are going to have to either live with the fact that the players figured it out very early, or you are going to have to seriously retool your plans.

IF you really want to mess with them, run a one off session where the players discover something suspicous. Lets say that a bunch a few families die of plague, their homes are cleaned out by the church, but neighbors mention that the children of the family arent among the dead, and have gone missing. When they ask around, tell them that a preist was seen with the child a few nights before the child died. Also mention that the same thing happened a few other times. When the players bust their way into the church and discover, to their horror, a well run orphanage / day care, run by loving and caring people. The children were removed from the home to keep them from getting sick.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[EricNoah]

What are the downsides of being part of the guild? Seems like there ought to be some, since those are all mighty nice benefits.

I'm trying to make it attractive! Only one of three potential members has actually joined though.

The downside is that there is a wide swath of magical knowledge that is forbidden or secret and not meant to be revealed to just anyone. Necromantic and monster conjuration are a couple, as well as some illusions and enchantments. If you're joining the guild, you are at least claiming to play by their restrictive (and in a sense somewhat futile and nonsensical) rules. And as the guild and the church and the aristocracy are all kind of working hand in hand to prop up a corrupt system of the few ruling the many, I think my players are (not surprisingly) chafing at that.

 

[diaglo]

players love to test the limits. when an area is unplotted or dropped in as backstory. the players will keep bumping up against it until it is no longer important. the more you add. the more it means they will keep trying.

when you make it unimportant/ stop adding to it eventually they will drop it.

the best way to do this is to make them tell you what happens next.

some players will run with it. most however will run away.

Player 1: "what do you mean there are no secret doors in this room? i search again."
DM: "You find nothing."
Player 2: "Aha, you said 'nothing'. Describe this 'nothing'."
DM: rolleyes. "It is a 10 foot by 10 foot room at the end of a corridor. There is a bed..."
Player 2: "You described the room already. Now describe the nothing."
DM: "You describe it. I don't think you get what I mean when I say nothing."

 

[EricNoah]

That's it. I'm putting a gazeebo on Chopper's Island!

 

[Plane Sailing]

I was running a sci fi adventure for some people, and when they were examining some high tech crates I gave them all the detail they asked for on the fly, to add verisimilitude to the situation.

Unfortunately, they assumed that because I "had so much detail" on these crates they must be a vital part of the plot...

 

[Whisper72]

Well... the main question is, do you want to have the PC's stumble upon something or not?

Might as well use the island and put stuff on there that acts as a hook back to the original storyline...

 

[Evilusion]

That's the problem when you make someting interesting in a game. The players find it and what to know more about it. I have the same advice everyone else does. Run with it.

Evilusion