D&D 4E When will 4E break?

[Sitara]

Well, you can break the encounter rules as is using the same bag of rats from the early mid 3e days.

You know, carry a bag of rabid rats around, Toss one out have it attack you. You are in an encounter. Use a per encounter power (mage armor) that takes your AC through the roof; now just have the rat follow you around and keep attack ing you all the time. You will constantly have mage armor one, since you are constantly in an encounter.

*roll eyes*

So obviously its the narrator's job to keep stupidity like this to a min or eliminate it.

 

[Crashy75]

I'm not too worried about bloodied specialists. The bloodied condition will be something of a double edged sword even for those characters. You are not only vulnerable due to low hit points, but also to any opponents that have special abilities that key off their opponents being bloodied. What I am concerned about is abilities that are activated when the bloodied condition is reached. I really don't want to see any cheesy back and forth tactics used in order to constantly use those trigger abilities.

Also, I could swear there was a playtest reference to special abilities that 'healed the bloodied condition' or something like that. It might not be enough to just take your second wind after you've passed that threshold. If we are talking about per encounter abilities (without recharging and assuming you couldn’t ready, if that’s the mechanic, this ability more than once), one could only do this so often.

 

[Fifth Element]

Hopefully WotC garnered a few of those guys from the CharOp board to do nothing more than try to break the system.

I think that whether the game rules can be abused by a group dedicated abusers is largely irrelevant to the general gaming populace. I personally don't care if there are a few cheesy tricks that can be pulled by people who spend their time looking for cheesy tricks - as a DM I wouldn't allow them and as a player they don't interest me.

Regardless of how much they playtest the system, there will always be some CO-type people who will be able to find abusable combinations, if they spend the time at it. Big deal. Most gaming groups don't play at the extremes.

And hey, if that's what the CO people find fun in the game, then why should we take that away from them? If they want to be able to break the game, why not let them? As long as the core system works well for the great majority of players, there's no issue there.

 

[Fifth Element]

Well, you can break the encounter rules as is using the same bag of rats from the early mid 3e days.

You know, carry a bag of rabid rats around, Toss one out have it attack you. You are in an encounter. Use a per encounter power (mage armor) that takes your AC through the roof; now just have the rat follow you around and keep attack ing you all the time. You will constantly have mage armor one, since you are constantly in an encounter.

*roll eyes*

So obviously its the narrator's job to keep stupidity like this to a min or eliminate it.

Exactly. The designers should not be spending time on closing potential loopholes like this one. They have better things to be doing - making the game more fun for the majority of players. If some jackass wants to try to pull a trick like this on his DM, so be it. If the DM has any sense, he'll just say "don't be stupid" and move on.

 

[Wepwawet]

With the "bloodied" thing, I fully expect not only masochist builds, but also masochist monsters and spells and overall tactics.

It will be wonderfully disturbing.

Hey! That's an interesting idea!

That would make Ilmater a good patron god, finally

 

[Christian]

Tumble is Trained Only in 3.5.

Acrobatics is usable untrained in SWSE--but the DC 15 check to avoid attacks of opportunity is a 'trained-only' use of the skill.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think the core 4E rules will not be that bad. A few minor things here and there, but fairly well balanced for the most part.


It will be the 50+ books after the core 3 that will break the game.

 

[Sitara]

lol Book of 10 Swords lol



But seriously, it was not just one thing in those 50+ splats (well...ur-priest aside) but the combinations of so many prc's and feats. Seriously, consider the new cleric/paladin feats: Divine Might, Sacred vengeance, etc.

These are great feats that should have been in core with everything balanced agasint them. The conept and even execution is great: burn a turn undead to gain massive damage/attack/hp boost. But see, once they are out there is absolutely no reason other than roleplaying not to take these feats if you are a pally or cleric, or anything with a turn undead ability.

 

[Incenjucar]

Hey! That's an interesting idea!

That would make Ilmater a good patron god, finally

"Form Emo Blood Sword!"

/wrist



But yeah, there's actually some pretty interesting ideas you can pull out of self-harm as a combat tactic. Will probably more of a "Vile" class, though.

Stigmata-based class could be Exalted, of course.

 

[Lanefan]

I think that whether the game rules can be abused by a group dedicated abusers is largely irrelevant to the general gaming populace.

Before the days of the Internet I'd have agreed. However, with information so quickly spread-able one has to take the dedicated abusers into consideration during design and cut 'em off at the pass, because their tricks will soon be everyone's tricks.

I personally don't care if there are a few cheesy tricks that can be pulled by people who spend their time looking for cheesy tricks - as a DM I wouldn't allow them and as a player they don't interest me.

Fair enough, though not allowing things as a DM doesn't always go over so well...

Lanefan