When would this spell be useful?

[moritheil]

I'm having a problem with a spell that I like, flavor-wise, but which is incredibly weak and just not worth casting in combat. I suppose that if you had a prisoner you could cast it on him repeatedly to keep him from using his powers, but I can't think of a valid in-combat use.

From the WOTC site:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ray of DepletionNecromancy
[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Level: Sor/Wiz 2, Brd 3
[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Component: V, S
[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Casting Time: 1 action
[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Effect: Ray
[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Duration: Instantaneous
[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Spell Resistance: Yes[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A shimmering ray springs from your hand to disrupt the mental fabric of psionically empowered beings, causing them a loss of power points. You must succeed at a ranged touch attack to strike a target.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The ray of depletion affects only targets possessing psionic power points. Non-psionic beings hit by a ray register some momentary unpleasant sensory awareness, but not so much as to disrupt an action or concentration.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Affected targets suffer a temporary loss of a number of psionic power points equal to 1+ half the attacker's caster level (round down). Thus a 10th-level caster would deplete 6 points. The victim's available psionic power point total can never drop below 0. Lost psionic power points are regained through normal means.​

[/FONT]




At 14th level and up, you're busy throwing save-or-dies around and thus casting this is generally pointless. So let's examine this at or below 14th level. You do 1+7 = 8 pp worth of damage. How many PP does a 14th-level psion or wilder get? Bare minimum, 170pp, which will easily be over 200 once ability bonuses and other things are thrown in. Of what possible use is the loss of 8 pp against that? It isn't guaranteed, either - you have to make a touch attack (might occasionally be an issue vs. wilders) AND they can still save.



You might argue that the spell is far more useful at low levels, but there again you would be wrong: at level 4 you can do a whopping 3 PP worth of damage, whereas they have over 21 PP. Congratulations; you used a precious turn in combat to deplete 1/7 of the enemy's daily resources. Basically, you have only succeeded in drawing their wrath. IME, combats against full manifesters are desperate affairs that generally only last about 3-5 rounds before they or the party are dead, so this just isn't making any real difference.
​

 

[mr.pink]

IME, combats against full manifesters are desperate affairs that generally only last about 3-5 rounds before they or the party are dead, so this just isn't making any real difference.
[/left]

I agree, psionics doesn't have enough magically endueced counters.

 

[Runestar]

The only use I can see is against foes with the psionic subtype, which gives them just 1 PP. Draining them of this point would render them incapable of retaining a psionic focus.

Seems more like a spell meant to be used against the PCs, rather than by them. The loss of PP would have little impact on npcs, considering how many they would start the encounter with. Conversely, PCs have to deal with such consequences after surviving the fight. For instance, a soulknife PC hit by this spell is pretty much screwed. Depending on how strictly you interpret his entry, he may not even be capable of manifesting his mindblade!

 

[moritheil]

The only use I can see is against foes with the psionic subtype, which gives them just 1 PP. Draining them of this point would render them incapable of retaining a psionic focus.

Nice catch!

Seems more like a spell meant to be used against the PCs, rather than by them. The loss of PP would have little impact on npcs, considering how many they would start the encounter with. Conversely, PCs have to deal with such consequences after surviving the fight. For instance, a soulknife PC hit by this spell is pretty much screwed. Depending on how strictly you interpret his entry, he may not even be capable of manifesting his mindblade!

He can't do anything that requires focus, but mindblade manifestation is not one of those things.

As a move action, a soulknife can create a semisolid blade composed of psychic energy distilled from his own mind. The blade is identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword of a size appropriate for its wielder. For instance, a Medium soulknife materializes a Medium mind blade that he can wield as a light weapon, and the blade deals 1d6 points of damage (crit 19-20/×2). Soulknives who are smaller or larger than Medium create mind blades identical to short swords appropriate for their size, with a corresponding change to the blade’s damage. The wielder of a mind blade gains the usual benefits to his attack roll and damage roll from a high Strength bonus.

He'd lose benefits from Speed of Thought, etc.


EDIT: Oh, I see it now.

Wild Talent

A soulknife gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat. (This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.)

I would say that's just the fluff, as there is no mechanical need for focus or 1 PP for the mind blade. I suppose a DM out to get the player could rule that he could not materialize any new mind blades after he loses his PP. There's no other part of the class entry that suggests that PP are needed, after all.

 

[Runestar]

I would say that's just the fluff, as there is no mechanical need for focus or 1 PP for the mind blade. I suppose a DM out to get the player could rule that he could not materialize any new mind blades after he loses his PP. There's no other part of the class entry that suggests that PP are needed, after all.

Well, there was a debate about this some time back. To me, that is purely flavour, but such a player may wish to double check with his DM anyways, just to play safe, because there are apparently DMs who would run it as such.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And the debate in question can be found here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3r...-soulknife-does-need-power-point-reserve.html

 

[moritheil]

Thanks!

Getting back to the main thrust of this - is denying psionic focus to monsters without real pp (and possibly messing with NPC soulknives) the main use of this for PC mages? Can anyone think of any other use?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The point about the Soulknife shouldn't be passed over so quickly, if for no other reason than that there are several Psionic PrCls that operate on just a few PP as well.

In a psi-heavy campaign, that could make a big difference.

OTOH, in a normal campaign, I don't see much point.

 

[moritheil]

The point about the Soulknife shouldn't be passed over so quickly, if for no other reason than that there are several Psionic PrCls that operate on just a few PP as well.

In a psi-heavy campaign, that could make a big difference.

Do they all have the text Soulkinfe has? It's not focus or the actual need for PPs, it's a throwaway line in Soulknife that the issue hinges on. Obviously the derivative class that advances Soulknife manifesting as a ranged weapon will be affected, but I can't think of any others that are guaranteed to have that same wording. What other PrCs have wording that explicitly causes them to not function once devoid of PPs and/or focus?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The Kineticist PrCl has a prereq of "Must have a power point reserve of at least 1 power point. "

If you no longer meet a PrCls prereqs, you can't use its abilities- reduced to zero PP, the Kineticists fizzle.

Similarly, some PrCls simply have slow PP progressions, so a couple of shots from this spell could cripple them quickly.

And that's just from the SRD.

As I recall, some from CompPsi or 3P sources like Hyperconscious are also powerful but with minimal PP.