When you have a - for a save, do you automatically fail?

[Blackrat]

Sure it does. It's because he also has a Dex of --, meaning a nonability.

So we look up nonabilities, Dexterity:

Dexterity
Any creature that can move has at least 1 point of Dexterity. A creature with no Dexterity score can’t move. If it can perform actions (such as casting spells), it applies its Intelligence modifier to initiative checks instead of a Dexterity modifier. The creature automatically fails Reflex saves and Dexterity checks.

You'll see the same if you look up the Formian Queen, for example, who also has a Dexterity of --.

-Hyp.

Ah, it was addressed in there . Never thought to try and find a solution to a Save question from non-ability part of SRD. Proves that I don't understand how the SRD works at all . Thanks Hypersmurf, your SRD-fu is much greater than mine

 

[green slime]

Ah, it was addressed in there . Never thought to try and find a solution to a Save question from non-ability part of SRD. Proves that I don't understand how the SRD works at all . Thanks Hypersmurf, your SRD-fu is much greater than mine

I think Hypersmurf has memorized the entire SRD and core rule books, and can probably recite page and paragraph number for any rules text, as well as the artist of any relevant work of art on the same page.

I'm starting to believe he isn't really a kiwi at all, but rather some kind of automatic web-based rule-bot, designed by Morrus, Pirate Cat, Caliban and Eric Noah that scours the ENweb looking for rules questions at random intervals. Probably scripted and stitched together by some unholy conglomeration of mysql, perl, php, html, and ada95. May actually be a research project for either DARPA or the US Department of Energy.

 

[Legildur]

I'm starting to believe he isn't really a kiwi at all, but rather some kind of automatic web-based rule-bot, designed by Morrus, Pirate Cat, Caliban and Eric Noah that scours the ENweb looking for rules questions at random intervals. Probably scripted and stitched together by some unholy conglomeration of mysql, perl, php, html, and ada95. May actually be a research project for either DARPA or the US Department of Energy.

If so, it was a smart move on their part to make New Zealand his home country knowing that no-one would ever go there to verify his existence, thereby maintaining the illusion of him being a real person.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Rather than say that a creature such as a shrieker has no movement because it has no dex, it would be more accurate to say that it has no dex because it has no movement. It is also inaccurate/misleading to list its save as -- when it should be listed as *, and then, *this creature does not move, therefore has no dex, and because it has no dex it automatically fails reflex saves - (see non-abilities, p. xx).

It is interesting as well to note that in the non-ability description of dex it states that a creature with no dex uses its int to adjust its initiative - but a shrieker also has no int. Of course I tak that to mean that it has no adjustment to initiative at all, though there will certainly be those who think it means they always go last in intiative, and others who assume that it means they always win initiative because the rules aren't saying they don't. But then all of this really should be explained in the monsters description entry, or at least written so as to clearly direct players to the relevant section of the rules to understand WHY such things are as they are. JMO.

 

[Kraydak]

Out of curiosity, does a Non-score in Dex prevent you from casting S spells? M spells? The Formian queen may have Eschew Materials, but almost all her Sorcerer spells have an S component, several have a non-cheap M component and she doesn't have Still Spell.

 

[darthkilmor]

Out of curiosity, does a Non-score in Dex prevent you from casting S spells? M spells? The Formian queen may have Eschew Materials, but almost all her Sorcerer spells have an S component, several have a non-cheap M component and she doesn't have Still Spell.

Well it does say:

Despite her utter lack of physical activity, the queen can cast spells and use spell-like abilities to great effect in her own defense as well as the defense of the hive-city.

Edit: But yes, Dex 0 means you can't move so I would say you can't cast any spell with an S component.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There's a special rule for monster spellcasting:
A spellcasting creature that lacks hands or arms can provide any somatic component a spell might require by moving its body. Such a creature also does need material components for its spells. The creature can cast the spell by either touching the required component (but not if the component is in another creature’s possession) or having the required component on its person. Sometimes spellcasting creatures utilize the Eschew Materials feat to avoid fussing with noncostly components.

So the costly material components is no problem - she just needs to have them stashed on her somewhere.

The somatic component exception wouldn't appear to help her, since 'moving her body' isn't an option open to her. Unless she can supply Somatic components with whatever movements she can make - respiration, egg-laying, and whatever obviously still work even with her Dex of --.

-Hyp.

 

[Kraydak]

Silly question: are you counted as touching an object that happens to be touching you? This is important because the Fomorian Queen, with a *strength* non-ability score, also, I think, has a max-load of 0, and hence can't have anything "on her person" (including a spell component pouch).

So without a dex score, she can't actively touch anything, and without a strength score, she can't passively have anything "on her person"...

(which is somewhat moot, because the only 2 spells suggested for her without a S component, Geas and Teleport, also don't have material components. it does become significant for some of her spells with expensive components if she were to take the Still Spell feat).