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Where 3E and 4E players stand in the great 3E disputes
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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4524442" data-attributes="member: 40961"><p>I'm pro 4e. I am pro 3e too, I just like 4e more and think that haters should be shot.</p><p></p><p>1. Psionics: Good or Bad?</p><p>Bad. I like the idea of psionics, but I don't like the 3e implementation. It basically became an alternative version of spellcasting, with its own balance problems. These problems weren't necessarily lesser or greater than the balance problems with the core vancian spellcasters, but they were different, and keeping a lid on them required mastery of an entirely new system. I have high hopes for a psionics revision in 4e, because I do like the concept. Minus the crystals, but that probably won't happen, so I'll have to cope.</p><p></p><p>2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened?</p><p>Best thing ever. My first thought upon hearing about 4e was, "But I've barely yet had the chance to play with Tome of Battle in an actual game!"</p><p></p><p>3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No?</p><p>3e Fighter sucks. It sucks on multiple levels. It becomes less and less relevant at high levels, because even if it manages to keep up in terms of damage, wizards cast "rule breaker" spells that change the rules of the game so that damage isn't as important, and Fighters have to try to keep up by owning magical gear or having their wizard allies help them. And your equipment list versus my spells known is a losing battle for you. They also suck because they don't do much out of combat, and that's where a fairly large portion of my game is played.</p><p></p><p>4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no?</p><p>Yes. Its the rulebreaker problem again. The overpowered nature is demonstrated in even little things like the way that a wand of Spider Climb renders a rogue's entire skill investment pointless. Or the way that a mystery plotline can be derailed by divinations. Or the way that a fight with a particular group of enemies can be rendered pointless by flight and ranged attacks. They turn the game into a rock/paper/scissors minigame of "thwart the spellcaster's attempts at bypassing the challenge." Which isn't fun for me. Some people call this "creative use of spells," but I tend to call it "destroying the realism of the gameworld."</p><p></p><p>5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion?</p><p>Basically rules as written. The only real houserule, other than campaign based restrictions on classes or races, was not to intentionally screw up the game. Everyone kind of policed themselves.</p><p></p><p>6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually?</p><p>A bit of both.</p><p></p><p>7. Eberron: Yes or No?</p><p>I never played in it, but it looks fun enough. My only real problem with it is the same problem I have with most published settings- too much information for me to deal with, and too difficult to simplify down to one region to run a game.</p><p></p><p>8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions)</p><p>4e. I'm in a new city, and I'm starting up a game of all rookie players. Everyone's having a great time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4524442, member: 40961"] I'm pro 4e. I am pro 3e too, I just like 4e more and think that haters should be shot. 1. Psionics: Good or Bad? Bad. I like the idea of psionics, but I don't like the 3e implementation. It basically became an alternative version of spellcasting, with its own balance problems. These problems weren't necessarily lesser or greater than the balance problems with the core vancian spellcasters, but they were different, and keeping a lid on them required mastery of an entirely new system. I have high hopes for a psionics revision in 4e, because I do like the concept. Minus the crystals, but that probably won't happen, so I'll have to cope. 2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened? Best thing ever. My first thought upon hearing about 4e was, "But I've barely yet had the chance to play with Tome of Battle in an actual game!" 3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No? 3e Fighter sucks. It sucks on multiple levels. It becomes less and less relevant at high levels, because even if it manages to keep up in terms of damage, wizards cast "rule breaker" spells that change the rules of the game so that damage isn't as important, and Fighters have to try to keep up by owning magical gear or having their wizard allies help them. And your equipment list versus my spells known is a losing battle for you. They also suck because they don't do much out of combat, and that's where a fairly large portion of my game is played. 4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no? Yes. Its the rulebreaker problem again. The overpowered nature is demonstrated in even little things like the way that a wand of Spider Climb renders a rogue's entire skill investment pointless. Or the way that a mystery plotline can be derailed by divinations. Or the way that a fight with a particular group of enemies can be rendered pointless by flight and ranged attacks. They turn the game into a rock/paper/scissors minigame of "thwart the spellcaster's attempts at bypassing the challenge." Which isn't fun for me. Some people call this "creative use of spells," but I tend to call it "destroying the realism of the gameworld." 5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion? Basically rules as written. The only real houserule, other than campaign based restrictions on classes or races, was not to intentionally screw up the game. Everyone kind of policed themselves. 6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually? A bit of both. 7. Eberron: Yes or No? I never played in it, but it looks fun enough. My only real problem with it is the same problem I have with most published settings- too much information for me to deal with, and too difficult to simplify down to one region to run a game. 8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions) 4e. I'm in a new city, and I'm starting up a game of all rookie players. Everyone's having a great time. [/QUOTE]
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