Where are all the great spy RPGs?

[Calithorne]

Back in the 1980's, TSR put out a great game called Top Secret. It had everything you needed to run great spy adventures. What happened to Top Secret, and why is it no longer sold in stores? And where are the other great spy RPGs? I know there are "modern" RPGs, but nothing I know of is dedicated to spy adventures, with all the specialized information that would require: like information about spy equipment, spy terminology, spy methods, spy organizations, etc.

Is there any interest in running a spy campaign?

 

[corwyn77]

I'm about to start a late-cold war era espionage game using GURPS Covert Ops. GURPS genre books tend to be fairly low on crunch so, aside from adapting gear, it would be pretty useful in general.

While class/level based games are not my preference, I thought Spycraft, the D20 spy game, was pretty good.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Well, back when 3.5Ed was the 800lb gorilla, there was Spycraft.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spycraft

And GURPS, HERO, and other toolbox systems can do spies just fine...mechanically.

But I'd bet part of the problem is that- because of most spy-centric fiction (and certain historical events) most people think of spying as a solitary thing. Spies rarely work as a team in the same way as D&D party, a superhero team, a gang or police/military squad.

When spies work as teams, there's agents doing surveillance, lookouts, gear building specialists, demolitions, hacking, wheelmen/pilots and other transport specialists, and usually just one "action" guy. IOW, one PC may get to shine repeatedly, but most of the other roles are less...cinematic.

 

[Calithorne]

Well, back when 3.5Ed was the 800lb gorilla, there was Spycraft.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spycraft

And GURPS, HERO, and other toolbox systems can do spies just fine...mechanically.

But I'd bet part of the problem is that- because of most spy-centric fiction (and certain historical events) most people think of spying as a solitary thing. Spies rarely work as a team in the same way as D&D party, a superhero team, a gang or police/military squad.

When spies work as teams, there's agents doing surveillance, lookouts, gear building specialists, demolitions, hacking, wheelmen/pilots and other transport specialists, and usually just one "action" guy. IOW, one PC may get to shine repeatedly, but most of the other roles are less...cinematic.

That's true. Almost always my Top Secret adventures were run solo.

 

[corwyn77]

Well, back when 3.5Ed was the 800lb gorilla, there was Spycraft.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spycraft

And GURPS, HERO, and other toolbox systems can do spies just fine...mechanically.

But I'd bet part of the problem is that- because of most spy-centric fiction (and certain historical events) most people think of spying as a solitary thing. Spies rarely work as a team in the same way as D&D party, a superhero team, a gang or police/military squad.

When spies work as teams, there's agents doing surveillance, lookouts, gear building specialists, demolitions, hacking, wheelmen/pilots and other transport specialists, and usually just one "action" guy. IOW, one PC may get to shine repeatedly, but most of the other roles are less...cinematic.

Spies can work with a party if you take the spy part loosely and run something in the style of Leverage or Mission Impossible but, yeah, you need to work to get everyone involved more or less equally.

 

[Nagol]

Back in the 1980's, TSR put out a great game called Top Secret. It had everything you needed to run great spy adventures. What happened to Top Secret, and why is it no longer sold in stores? And where are the other great spy RPGs? I know there are "modern" RPGs, but nothing I know of is dedicated to spy adventures, with all the specialized information that would require: like information about spy equipment, spy terminology, spy methods, spy organizations, etc.

Is there any interest in running a spy campaign?

My favourite systems for espionage are Espionage! and Danger International both of which are ancient parts of the Hero Games line.

More modern spy games include:

Dedicated espionage games
Spycraft 2.0
Dark Champions (2004 version)
Black 7

Generic Games with supplements
GURPS
Apocalypse World
FATE
Hero systems

Systems that would work with slight tweaks
Leverage

Supernatural horror wedded to covert ops is popular as well. Here are some of the more commonly noted:
Night's Black Agents (vampire bad guys)
Agents of Oblivion
The Laundry (Cthulu-ish)

 

[raleel]

Leverage actually has a spy supplement called KRYPTOS. It has a mission generator and advice for running one. Leverage also has a one on one supplement for running solo games, and KRYPTOS specifically mentions that the genre is good for that

I'm a giant fan of Black Seven, not only because it's the genre, but because the mechanics are nicely portable to other systems. It's cheap, and a quick read, and quite good.

 

[amerigoV]

Reality Blurs made Agents of Oblivion for Savage Worlds. It has a number of dials built in such that you can run anything from classic cold war spy to X-Files to investigating stuff man was not meant to know (which then naturally combos with the same company's Realms of Cthulhu).

 

[trancejeremy]

There's also Classified, which is a clone of the old James Bond RPG


I have to think that part of the trouble is that spying is hard, mentally challenging and takes a good deal roleplaying ability - not only are you playing a character, you're now playing a character playing another character. Especially team spying a la Mission Impossible (the show).

As opposed to shooting your way into the enemies secret fortress, or the James Bond style of getting captured and shooting your way out.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There's also Classified, which is a clone of the old James Bond RPG


I have to think that part of the trouble is that spying is hard, mentally challenging and takes a good deal roleplaying ability - not only are you playing a character, you're now playing a character playing another character. Especially team spying a la Mission Impossible (the show).

As opposed to shooting your way into the enemies secret fortress, or the James Bond style of getting captured and shooting your way out.

Wait, he does that on purpose?

All this time, I thought he merely sucked at spying and got lucky as hell.*






* in every sense of that.

 

[billd91]

I think things have also declined for spy genre games because the Cold War is over - the great and relatively stable background setting is gone. If you want to run a game still in it, it's now historical and we all know how things ultimately turned out. Today's world of espionage, if you want the game to resonate with the players and use the basic knowledge they have, is a lot weirder and more confusing.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

2 words: Burn Notice

 

[SmokinDeist]

Here's a link to a YouTube video of Merle Rasmussen showing off the new edition of Top Secret coming out...

https://youtu.be/v83jiYmrUzs

 

[JesterOC]

I did love Spycraft, I also like the idea of Leverage, but none of my friends want to play Spy games anymore so we never played it. I hear Gumshoe games like Nights Black agents, are good for spy games.

Spy games are tough on players, at least they are tough on my players. In the movies it all looks so obvious, but when the players come across a building with a security system, it puts a burden on them to remember how to get by it. Leverage had a class type that was perfect for that. They could retcon how they HAD already placed countermeasures in ahead of time. It seemed like a great way to allows the players minimal planning time, and maximum execution time.

 

[schnee]

Spy stuff used to be about human incursion.
That's obsolete now. The game would be:

'I aim the spy satellite at the license plate'
'I search the NSA database for (Villain)'s phone calls, using (query string) to find (meta data)'
'I press the button to have the drone blow up the car'

booooooooooooooring

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Spy stuff used to be about human incursion.
That's obsolete now. The game would be:

'I aim the spy satellite at the license plate'
'I search the NSA database for (Villain)'s phone calls, using (query string) to find (meta data)'
'I press the button to have the drone blow up the car'

booooooooooooooring

Y'know...

Something like that might work as a card or board game...

 

[Jer]

Spy stuff used to be about human incursion.
That's obsolete now. The game would be:

'I aim the spy satellite at the license plate'
'I search the NSA database for (Villain)'s phone calls, using (query string) to find (meta data)'
'I press the button to have the drone blow up the car'

booooooooooooooring

This is why the Burn Notice-type model works pretty well. You're an ex-spy who doesn't have access to anything but skills and maybe some contacts who are still willing to do you some favors.

Nights Black Agents is good at this - being a burned spy who has been burned because you got too close to figuring out that vampires were secretly running your agency is an instant story setup.

There's also the option of making it a period piece - set it in the 1960s or the 1980s and you're good to go even without the burned spy angle.

 

[aramis erak]

Spy stuff used to be about human incursion.
That's obsolete now. The game would be:

'I aim the spy satellite at the license plate'
'I search the NSA database for (Villain)'s phone calls, using (query string) to find (meta data)'
'I press the button to have the drone blow up the car'

booooooooooooooring

Real HumInt is still

1. go place under fake identity that's been backstopped,
2. make suitable friends,
3. get information by exploiting one or more of
   • laxity
   • greed
   • pride
   • lust
4. send anything even vaguely relevant back by the most secure means available
5. Analysts go over your data
6. Analysts have controller send you specific requests
7. Are you discovered, compromised, or burned?
   If not, go back to 3

Makes for great novels, and occasionally decent movies, but its not great for group RP.

Most Spy novels are not so much espionage, but "HumInt Opponent Asset Negation"... also called wetwork, assassination, kidnapping, counter-intelligence, and/or counter-counter-intelligence. The "Here's the target, deny his use to the enemy." If it's in Enemy territory, and the target is in counter intel, that's counter-counter-intelligence.

Sometimes, it's just "buy the right prostitute for the target's use, film it, then leak it to the net to put them into public scandal mode... Especially when the host society has MAJOR issues with either prostitution and/or same sex attraction.

Sometimes, it's "Terminate with extreme prejudice" - another phrase for same being, "Make certain they are dead in a very messy way." Like handing an operative a dossier and 3 grenades...

 

[GMMichael]

Spies can work with a party if you take the spy part loosely and run something in the style of Leverage or Mission Impossible but, yeah, you need to work to get everyone involved more or less equally.

This is worth discussing (maybe not in this thread?). What spy actually works alone? Even James Bond has a female counterpart, comic relief, and HQ contact at most times. Danny laid out a good list, and I'm not sure there's a difference between his and the usual fighter-cleric-rogue-wizard list.

If you have the type of group that loves to charge into battle, wisdom be damned, then there's a difference.

Besides that, what is the spy equivalent of FCRW? Didn't the A-team do it best? They had (according to Wikipedia) the disguise expert, the acquisition expert, muscle/mechanic, and pilot.

 

[Morrus]

Oh, god, the A-Team look young.

I am now depressed.