D&D 5E Where are the PDFs?

[Zulithe]

I don't want PDFs, because they are difficult to use at the game table and even as a referene they are 'slow' compared to say, a wiki or somesuch.

We may never get a fully decked out wiki with EVERYTHING in the books (though that sure would be great at the game table) but how about very powerful and robust apps that provide something similar?

Give us an iPad app (or insert platform here. I prefer my macbook pro myself) that contains the basic rules and has in-app purchases to add on new content from the books as they surface.

They have to stop being so scared of digital. WotC's competitors are already eating their lunch because of this. Case in point: Blizzard's Magic: The Gathering destroyer named Hearthstone.

 

[drjones]

Totally, a nice hyperlinked rules ref would be about 500x more useful than a PDF of the book.

Give us an iPad app (or insert platform here. I prefer my macbook pro myself) that contains the basic rules and has in-app purchases to add on new content from the books as they surface.

Sounds like what you want is entirely Dungeonscape. It would be nice if it was available the day the PHB came out, but it also would have been nice if all the books were available that day too. They have chosen to sacrifice an all-at-once release schedule for quality. In the case of character building and rules, they really could not start finalizing that code and begin testing until the PHB was off to be printed so it is understandable. In SW you can have it fast, good or cheap chose two. They seem to have chosen good with a half dose of fast and half of cheap (probably agile development) though it will be hard to say until we have it in hand.

 

[Zulithe]

Well, I'm a little confused about exactly what Dungeonscape will be offering, but I will definitely be checking it out as it becomes available and evolves. If it's the ultimate digital reference source that you can use at the game table, that's great.

Though that would be excellent in the short term, over the long term they should release a fully-featured digital tabletop for players to use for online play. they can monetize it not only by integrating with Dungeonscape but by selling adventure modules and models of 3d miniatures, with hopefully the option for people to import their own 3d models.

This platform should allow you to create and customize your own digital miniatures as well as build your own 3d environments for adventures. You can even imagine people using it JUST for that purpose -- even if they never actually play a game of D&D! Look at Minecraft for example. People love to build.

there are lots of 2d options out there like d20 pro, and they are great. but I really love that 3d tabletop demo WotC showed off years ago and scrapped. I thought it was the right direction and they abandoned it.

I applaud all of you who are in tightly-knit gaming groups who have been playing for years and years, or who are lucky enough to have some friends into tabletop rpgs that would join a new campaign at a moment's notice. But we're not all in that position, there's so many variables involved in setting up a campaign. The internet just makes it easier for a large segment of the players out there and it really should be invested in on WotC's part.

 

[prosfilaes]

Totally, a nice hyperlinked rules ref would be about 500x more useful than a PDF of the book.

A PDF of a book can be just as hyperlinked as any other hypertext system.

 

[Hussar]

Well, I'm a little confused about exactly what Dungeonscape will be offering, but I will definitely be checking it out as it becomes available and evolves. If it's the ultimate digital reference source that you can use at the game table, that's great.

Though that would be excellent in the short term, over the long term they should release a fully-featured digital tabletop for players to use for online play. they can monetize it not only by integrating with Dungeonscape but by selling adventure modules and models of 3d miniatures, with hopefully the option for people to import their own 3d models.

This platform should allow you to create and customize your own digital miniatures as well as build your own 3d environments for adventures. You can even imagine people using it JUST for that purpose -- even if they never actually play a game of D&D! Look at Minecraft for example. People love to build.

there are lots of 2d options out there like d20 pro, and they are great. but I really love that 3d tabletop demo WotC showed off years ago and scrapped. I thought it was the right direction and they abandoned it.

I applaud all of you who are in tightly-knit gaming groups who have been playing for years and years, or who are lucky enough to have some friends into tabletop rpgs that would join a new campaign at a moment's notice. But we're not all in that position, there's so many variables involved in setting up a campaign. The internet just makes it easier for a large segment of the players out there and it really should be invested in on WotC's part.

While I love the sentiment, I would have to say that I hope that they give both a 2D and 3D environment and if they have to choose, they go 2D. While a 3D environment might be gorgeous, it means that that DM has to spend a bajillion hours designing the environment, rather than playing. No thanks.

I want a virtual tabletop, not a virtual reality program.

 

[Morrus]

While I love the sentiment, I would have to say that I hope that they give both a 2D and 3D environment and if they have to choose, they go 2D. While a 3D environment might be gorgeous, it means that that DM has to spend a bajillion hours designing the environment, rather than playing. No thanks.

I want a virtual tabletop, not a virtual reality program.

DungeonScape is not a virtual tabletop. It's for use *at* a tabletop. Entirely different type of product altogether.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

A PDF of a book can be just as hyperlinked as any other hypertext system.

Can you show me one? Of similar size as the PHB?

There are many books-as-PDF around, where not even the index is hyperlinked.

And some technical question: does a PDF hyperlink allow you open a second instance in a different window? This would be great in order not to lose the original text.

Are there PDF readers around with a "back" function?

I picture myself reading a text referencing some different part of the document and wanting to look up the reference. This is my personal usability test, which PDFs fail.

And concerning the possibility of hyperlinks: doing so would defeat the "it's cheap to do" argument.

 

[aramis erak]

Can you show me one? Of similar size as the PHB?

There are many books-as-PDF around, where not even the index is hyperlinked.

I've encountered several which were obviously automated hotlinking. Heck, I can generate hyperlinked PDF using Apple's Pages or M$ Word. (They're not easily done, aside from index and TOC flagging, but can be done.)

I've seen decent hotlinking done well by MWP - Firefly and MHR are beautifully hyperlinked - but the links are margin note (aka sidebar) references. This makes them both easier to use and easier to find visually.

And some technical question: does a PDF hyperlink allow you open a second instance in a different window? This would be great in order not to lose the original text.

Depends upon how the link is set up. If it is just a straight hyperlink in document, no, usually it opens in the same window, replacing the prior location.
They can be tweaked a bit; a target="_new" parameter can be added if you hack the PDF, or they can be done with JavaScript calls instead of direct HTTP links, which allows a lot of control... but reduces non-laptop/desktop readability.

Are there PDF readers around with a "back" function?

Yes, a few. For those PDF's you can read in Chrome, Safari, Explorer, or Firefox, the back button usually works after a hyperlink, but don't use it for after page turns....

Acrobat Reader X does, too... but it's hidden. Right-click on the page, select previous view.

I picture myself reading a text referencing some different part of the document and wanting to look up the reference. This is my personal usability test, which PDFs fail.

And concerning the possibility of hyperlinks: doing so would defeat the "it's cheap to do" argument.

In Acrobat reader X on a desktop, to get a new window for your link... (I'm using MacOS X 10.9... your machine's install may vary)
on the menu bar: window -> new window (thisp ops up a new window with the same view) then click the link in this new window. When done, click the close window button. You're now looking at the original window, right where you left off.

It's a pain method, but it does work.

 

[mach1.9pants]

And some technical question: does a PDF hyperlink allow you open a second instance in a different window? This would be great in order not to lose the original text.

Are there PDF readers around with a "back" function?

What PDF Reader do you use? AFAIK they all have forward and back (view) keys, they just are not on the tool bar as default. First thing I do when I install acrobat or foxit is put them up there. So I don't think there is a reason to open in a new tab/window, although you could have 2 or more instances of the same book open I guess. Similar to a real book, hard to read 2 or more pages at once without flipping.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

So I don't think there is a reason to open in a new tab/window, although you could have 2 or more instances of the same book open I guess. Similar to a real book, hard to read 2 or more pages at once without flipping.

Well, in a real book I can put my fingers between the pages to go quickly back to the previous section. But today I learned something about those readers.

My main point remains, though: When I replace the traditional book with some modern tech, I'd like to have more usability, not less or the same level. Going to PDF still seems like a half-hearted effort to me.