Where did the DND magic system come from?

[dreaded_beast]

I've heard the DND magic system being referred to as "Vancian" (sp?) If I understand correctly, this is based on the writings of an author by that name.

Anyone know why this magic system was used instead of other magic systems?

 

[Turjan]

Well, the magic system is from Jack Vance's 'Dying Earth' book, a collection of short stories. The book is from 1950, which means that it predates the Lord of the Rings by several years . There wasn't much else regarding magic systems around during that time .

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

'cause Gary liked it.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

To elaborate on Jack Vance's Dying Earth magic system, the idea behind memorization was that a wizard could only remember a few of the complex formulas required to work magic at a time. A great wizard trained his memory to remember more and more spells, but the wizards of Dying Earth were still extremely limited compared to their predecessors.

I agree with Turjan, that there weren't many actual systems of magic detailed in literature in those days. R.E. Howard's Conan yarns, maybe LeGuin's Earthsea. Tolkien never gave details on how magic really worked. R.E. Howard's magicians were almost universally evil. LeGuin's ideas on true names might have worked, but would've been pretty open-ended. Looking at what was around at the time, Vance's system fits pretty snuggly with the class based system of D&D.

 

[TerraDave]

'cause Gary liked it.

Exactly.

But it is worth noting that those books did have a magic system. Many works (at least until the fantasy explosion that started in the 70s), including LotR may have had magic, but not really a system--the magic just comes. And in many cases (at least in the swords and sorcery works that so influanced the early game), magic was really for villains only. The hereoes, if you could call them that, of those Vancian works where also casters.

Of course, relgion, myth, legend, folk lore (and what would become the New Age movement) have systems of magic, and these did influance the game...but seemingly more on the divine side.

 

[adwyn]

The Vancian system also provided a solid rational for an already existing spells/game that was present in the wargaming roots of D&D. Like most things, mechanics preceeded the explanation, a D&D tradition.

 

[rogueattorney]

In Stategic Review #7, "The Dungeons & Dragons Magic System", available in the Dragon CD-ROM archive or Best of Dragon, vol. 1, Gygax went into great detail on exactly why he chose the magic system that he did. It's obvious he put a lot of thought into it. He goes over various magic systems as they appeared in various fanstasy works and mythology. He says he concluded that a system similar to that in Jack Vance's Dying Earth stories would be best for a game. The other systems he considered weren't viable for the game because they either made the magic-user too powerful or too weak.

R.A.

 

[gizmo33]

Complete Enchanter

I read a reprint last year of a series of books (by DeCamp and Fletcher Pratt) called the "Complete Enchanter". If I remember this correctly it had stuff about verbal, somatic, and material components. There was some sort of pseudo-logical basis for how magic worked. I believe it shows up in the 1st Ed DMG in the recommended reading section. While the core of the magic and spell memorization system does come from Vance, I think these stories also had an influence. (There's even a part where the hero is in a fire giant lair and there are a bunch of trolls around - reminded me a lot of G3.)

 

[Glyfair]

I read a reprint last year of a series of books (by DeCamp and Fletcher Pratt) called the "Complete Enchanter". If I remember this correctly it had stuff about verbal, somatic, and material components. There was some sort of pseudo-logical basis for how magic worked. I believe it shows up in the 1st Ed DMG in the recommended reading section. While the core of the magic and spell memorization system does come from Vance, I think these stories also had an influence. (There's even a part where the hero is in a fire giant lair and there are a bunch of trolls around - reminded me a lot of G3.)

Indeed, it's listed in the "recommended reading" section of the 1st edition DMG.

 

[fuindordm]

In Stategic Review #7, "The Dungeons & Dragons Magic System", available in the Dragon CD-ROM archive or Best of Dragon, vol. 1, Gygax went into great detail on exactly why he chose the magic system that he did. It's obvious he put a lot of thought into it. He goes over various magic systems as they appeared in various fanstasy works and mythology. He says he concluded that a system similar to that in Jack Vance's Dying Earth stories would be best for a game. The other systems he considered weren't viable for the game because they either made the magic-user too powerful or too weak.

R.A.

To elaborate further, IIRC he wanted magic-users to have a powerful but limited resource. Even first-level spells should be strong enough to turn the tide of an encounter (for example, the infamous Sleep spell), which is why he didn't feel bad limiting them to one a day at first level, but he wanted spells to be something that were used judiciously. I highly recommend Vance's 'Tales of the Dying Earth' (a set of loosely connected short stories) and the Cugel books--they're a great read, and will give you some great insight into the atmosphere that Gary was trying to draw on. His dying earth stories were recently reprinted in an omnibus volume.

With each edition of D&D spells have gotten weaker and more limited in their use, but thankfully the 3rd edition had to wit to grant them bonus spells like clerics in exchange.

Ben