Where do Outsiders go when they die?

[Ao the Overkitty]

Okay, here's the deal. My Paladin's Lantern Archon cohort bit the big one last week while we battled a Red Dragon. Now, it's gonna take a lot of money to miracle him back, family funds that we need elsewhere (especially since taxes are coming up soon).

As the suppossed leader of the family [I'm more of just a figurehead] I do have some sway in where money gets allocated, but this is a very touchy subject, so here is a topic that would sway his decision.

Where do Outsiders go when they're killed on a Prime?

From memory, they get sent back home, but cannot return to the prime again without a Miracle or Wish. Unfortunately, I cannot remember where I read this.

The DM wants a source before he makes a ruling in this regard, since he wants to know if we blow all our cash (and a sizable amount of our items) getting my cohort back or if we wait, knowing he's safe for now.

So, does anyone know where I got this from? And, does it exist in 3E/3.5E?

One possibility is I got it from Planescape, since I have played in a somewhat long campaign there.

 

[Shemeska]

Unless killed on their 'native' plane they slowly reform back on that plane. If killed on their 'native' plane they're dead for good and their essence merges with that of the plane itself. In this case Mount Celestia would count as the Archon's home/native plane.

Spells such as wish or miracle or perhaps true ressurection could return their diffuse essence back to normal without the normal time period it would take for them to reform.

I can't quote you an exact source here, but from my knowledge of Planescape thats what I'd say. All of my books are in boxes from an apartment move, otherwise I'd quote pages for ya.

 

[hong]

Is it a coincidence that I'm reading this thread right after going to a Bladerunner website?

 

[nimisgod]

Hmm... from what I remember, if it was killed for real then it just disappears. Unlike most other creatures, outsiders and elementals do not have a seperate body and soul. This is discussed in the MM 3.5.

If it was summoned (via the summon spells) then it never really died. But if it was called or its real form really died, then it just disappears. The Outer Planes are already the afterlife in D&D. Those that reside there don't have an after-after life.

 

[ForceUser]

Where do bad folks go when they die?
They don't go to heaven where the angels fly;
They go to the lake of fire and fry.
You won't see them again 'til the fourth of July.

A cookie to whoever gets that one.

 

[Shemeska]

Where do bad folks go when they die?
They don't go to heaven where the angels fly;
They go to the lake of fire and fry.
You won't see them again 'til the fourth of July.

A cookie to whoever gets that one.

So are we talking the Nirvana version or the Meatpuppets version of the song?

 

[guedo79]

I'd suggest a quest. Like Shemeska said, if your using the planescape afterworlds, your Lantern Archon cohort is reforming/reformed on the planes. It may be more fun and cheaper then casting a spell.

 

[AuraSeer]

Short version: He's dead, Jim.

Long version:
The text you're looking for is in the general description of Conjuration(Summoning) spells. (Check the Magic Overview file in the SRD.) A summoned creature who dies cannot be resummoned immediately, but is not actually dead, and reforms after 24 hours.

However, that only applies to Summoned creatures-- those brought in by the summon monster spells. Your archon was not Summoned, because it stayed with you for more than just a few rounds.

Your archon may have been Called, by a spell like gate or planar ally. Or it may have travelled in via plane shift, or using a natural portal. Regardless of the method, it was physically present on the Prime, so it is now really dead.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Unless killed on their 'native' plane they slowly reform back on that plane. If killed on their 'native' plane they're dead for good and their essence merges with that of the plane itself. In this case Mount Celestia would count as the Archon's home/native plane.

Spells such as wish or miracle or perhaps true ressurection could return their diffuse essence back to normal without the normal time period it would take for them to reform.

I can't quote you an exact source here, but from my knowledge of Planescape thats what I'd say. All of my books are in boxes from an apartment move, otherwise I'd quote pages for ya.

This is a critical difference between 2e and 3e.

In 2e, what Shemeska says was true. Certain outsiders could be killed permanently if slain outside of their home planes, but more powerful outsiders (a classification that would NOT have included lantern archons, BTW) would reform on their home planes if killed. So in 2e, your lantern archon would be permanently slain because it wasn't a powerful enough celestial to have the ability to reform on its home plane.

In 3e, OTOH, the critical difference is between summoning and calling. If an outsider (or any creature, for that matter) is summoned, it doesn't really die when "killed," but simply can't be summoned again for a while. If it's called, it dies when killed and can only be restored by means of a wish or miracle (if an outsider) or a raise dead-type spell (if something else).

Given that your lantern archon was a cohort, my guess was that it was a called outsider or one that had traveled to the Material Plane on its own. In that case, it's dead when slain, and by the core rules, you need a wish or miracle to bring it back. However, if you use the 3e Manual of the Planes, there is a spell in that book called revive dead outsider (Clr6) that works just like raise dead for outsiders. You could easily afford that spell, I imagine, and if your DM allows it, you could have it cast to bring back your archon buddy.

 

[ElMorte]

Outsiders don't die, they just go to (insert favored/home plane) to regroup.