Where do you center spell effects on your grid?

[MerakSpielman]

It seems easier to measure radii if you center spell effects on points (the intersection of the lines of the grid) but more often than not, players want to pick a space with a particular enemy or something and say "I want to center my spell on this square."

Which is more appropriate?

 

[Hardhead]

It seems easier to measure radii if you center spell effects on points (the intersection of the lines of the grid) but more often than not, players want to pick a space with a particular enemy or something and say "I want to center my spell on this square."

Which is more appropriate?

We figure it shouldn't be easy to pinpoint the detonation of a Fireball, and to always make sure that allies are *just* outside the blast radius. Therefore, we handle it slightly like grenade-like weapons: We make players pick a square, then we roll to see which corner it centers on.

 

[James McMurray]

We just pick a corner. But I really like Hardhead's method. If I emember I'll bring it up with my group. It seems like it would still be fairly easy to hit the enemies and not the party, unless you're in some funky conglomeration of figures. But it could add some suspense sometimes.

 

[KarinsDad]

We figure it shouldn't be easy to pinpoint the detonation of a Fireball, and to always make sure that allies are *just* outside the blast radius. Therefore, we handle it slightly like grenade-like weapons: We make players pick a square, then we roll to see which point it centers on.

The problem with this technique for some games may be the players themselves.

They are there to play a game and the core rules do not state that you need to target a location, they state that the spell goes where the caster desires.

I had a player of a Wizard 3 years ago who took the Fireball spell. The first time he tried to cast it, I had him roll hit location (since I had a house rule about that, I felt at the time the same as you do).

His response was that he would not have taken the spell if he would have known that he could easily damage his allies with it and that he would never cast that spell again.

So, DMs have to be careful. Some players may be ok with it, others not. The players are there, after all, to have fun. Targeting your allies is not usually fun (except for the initial laugh, it usually gets real old real quick).

 

[Rath the Brown]

It seems easier to measure radii if you center spell effects on points (the intersection of the lines of the grid) but more often than not, players want to pick a space with a particular enemy or something and say "I want to center my spell on this square."

Which is more appropriate?

Well, if you want the official answer... (emphasis mine)


From the SRD...

Area: Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below.

Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don’t control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection.

You can count diagonally across a square, but remember that every second diagonal counts as 2 squares of distance. If the far edge of a square is within the spell’s area, anything within that square is within the spell’s area. If the spell’s area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell.

 

[Hardhead]

We just pick a corner. But I really like Hardhead's method. If I emember I'll bring it up with my group. It seems like it would still be fairly easy to hit the enemies and not the party, unless you're in some funky conglomeration of figures. But it could add some suspense sometimes.

You'd be surprised. When fighting in tight formations, a 5' variance can make the difference.

The problem with this technique for some games may be the players themselves.

They are there to play a game and the core rules do not state that you need to target a location, they state that the spell goes where the caster desires.

That's more of a problem with not telling them the house rules ahead of time, though.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Targeting your allies is not usually fun (except for the initial laugh, it usually gets real old real quick).

The initial laugh is a good one, though

The sorcerer I DM made it to 6th level without taking a single point of damage (and I was trying, too!). His lucky streak ended when he opened a flask of Alchemist's Fire to see what was inside - generally a contraindicated practice. Only one point of splash damage, but it was amusing watching this man who'd never been so much as scratched treating that single point as a critical injury...

Anyway, some short time later, they were fighting a levitating gnoll archer in a fog cloud.

"The gnoll vanishes upwards, deeper into the cloud."
"Can I Magic Missile him?"
"No - you can't see him to target him."
"That's okay... I just learned a new spell. I'll estimate how far he'll have gotten, and cast Fireball...centred on a spot ten feet above where I think he is."

Unfortunately, the gnoll had levitated up just high enough to haul himself onto the wooden platform that the sorcerer couldn't see in the fog... well within twenty feet of where he was standing.

The platform shielded the gnoll from the fireball just fine. Not so the sorcerer...

Everyone else found that one hilarious

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

That's more of a problem with not telling them the house rules ahead of time, though.

Actually, they had the house rules on day one.

The problem is that on day one, the PCs are level one. By the time they get to level five, they've forgotten that particular house rule and unless your idea at level one is to throw a lot of area effect spells, such a house rule does not seem that imposing. But, once you start to want to throw area effect spells, then it suddenly becomes an issue.

Like I said, it is dependent on the group.

 

[Hardhead]

Actually, they had the house rules on day one.

The problem is that on day one, the PCs are level one. By the time they get to level five, they've forgotten that particular house rule and unless your idea at level one is to throw a lot of area effect spells, such a house rule does not seem that imposing. But, once you start to want to throw area effect spells, then it suddenly becomes an issue.

Like I said, it is dependent on the group.

Yeah, I could see that happening. When I introduced the roll-for-a-corner rule to my group, they liked the idea a lot. After all, precision fireballs works for the bad guys too.

 

[Hardhead]

Aside:

"The gnoll vanishes upwards, deeper into the cloud."
"Can I Magic Missile him?"
"No - you can't see him to target him."

This reminds me of a funny story. I was running a game for a bunch of seasoned RPers, with one exception: the girlfriend of one of the players (whose name I can't remember, and I'll call Jennifer). Jennifer didn't know the rules, and didn't care to learn. It's been four or five adventurers, and the characters are third level. They're tracking down a tiefling who knows where a BBEG lives, and they corner him in a bar. To escape, the tiefling uses his Darkness ability. One of the other players cast Grease, which only muddies the situation further. Jennifer, wanting to help, looks at her spell list (yeah, first time player, playing a caster. I tried to talk her out of it! At least I convinced her to go Sorcerer over Wizard). Anyway, she looks down at her spell list and says "I cast Magic Missle."

"You can't hit him with Magic Missle. You have to be able to see what you're casting it at, and he's cast Darkness."

Thinking she's found my logical flaw, she says, "Then I cast it at the Darkness!"

Of course, we've all heard the infamous Dead Alewives skit before, so there was a momentary silence in the room, then everyone bursts out laughing. She got really annoyed at everyone, but it was damn funny nonetheless.