Where have all the heroes gone?

[scipio]

OK, to clear some things - the players have had one combat in the last 3 games, a single encounter against a marauding blue dragon, CR11, which they defeated - with somewhat poor tactics. The time before that they battled gnomish pirates - definitely a more lighthearted combat, but poor tactics made the fight much harder than it needed to be. The last 2 adventures have been mostly role-playing (although I did have combats planned, the party just managed to evade these encounters). The officials chasing them have displayed impressive magical power, yet the party has not yet been assaulted - no danger in 10 days of travel, no fights in their destination, but with a general sense of unease. One PC has recognized that as long as they keep on their path, this is likely to hold - yet still they want to run.

I like the idea of using the action points, that may give them more confidence. IMC, there have been some character deaths, but everyone concedes this is due to foolish behavior. Our group does not run resurrection spells. The players have stated they don't feel railroad. I know my players - some of them consider heroes to be too archtypical, others like to fight the good fight. It's a matter of party unity - there is none. I'm going to talk to the group this evening, as we have a different game on Fridays. I'll float some of everyone's suggestions and let you know what I find out.

 

[S'mon]

I've had the same problem of risk-averse players (to the extent of clinical paranoia, arguably) - I tried Fate Points, which helped a little but, but really there wasn't much I could do. It certainly made the high-level game much less fun.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

You and the players are not on the same page game style wise. You want one things and they want something else. I'd talk to them about it out of game and see where they stand.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.


Shamefully, as a player I've done something like this before. The GM had pitched the setting to me rather than the plot he wanted to run in that setting, so when the time came to start the game, I had the Wrong Character. You know the type: doesn't have the skills to deal with the plot, doesn't have the personality to deal with the plot, doesn't have any in-character interest in the plot.

And worse yet, it was a plot that just didn't appeal to me as a player. When I'd heard about the setting (described in terms of its landscape and its politics, mostly), I was eager to play a character who'd be getting out there and exploring all of that. You know, doing great deeds and showing off, moving from town to town and seeing things no one back home had even dreamt of.

But what the GM wanted to run was a game where all the characters take on the day-to-day responsibilities of running a household, defend it against smarmy and sinister neighbors, cultivate its resources and its prestige, that kind of thing. And I suppose that could be fun, but personally, I don't get much of a charge out of financial planning and household management; I can barely stand to do it in real life, when it's real money and my own household, and I'm not sure why I'd want to do it in a game when I could be doing something more fun instead.

So I kept looking for an out, something I could do in-character that would get me the hell away from that plot and out where I could do the fun stuff that the setting had promised me was out there waiting to be done (and trying my best to drag the rest of the party along with me). And I'm sure the GM was as frustrated and upset as I was, watching these PCs spurn the plot and put all their effort into avoiding what was, to him, the whole purpose of the game.

The game died in just a few sessions, of course. And I don't mourn its loss, though in retrospect it would have been better for both of us and far more polite if I had just gone to him and said that I felt like he'd pulled a bait-and-switch on me, and that if he wants to run a game about a particular plot (especially one that's unusual), he should really tell me up front or at the very least ask me a lot of questions during character creation to make sure that my character concept and my plans for that character are in line with what he wants to run. It sucks having the Wrong Character. It sucks worse when you know that with a little warning, you could've made the Right one instead.


Seriously, listen to Crothian's excellent advice: tell your players about the kind of game you wanted to run, ask them about the kind of game they thought they were showing up to play, and then figure out if there's any way that those two games can be reconciled. If not, then it's time to reboot with either a different plot or a different set of characters.

--
it is much less traumatic for everyone concerned, i assure you
ryan

 

[Endur]

Understanding

You'd be churning butter, forging weapons, researching some esoteric magical point, becoming a beaurocrat, or learning embroidery. Am I wrong here?

So run a game about magic using farmers and smiths.

Seriously, I know its hard work, but try to go in the direction the players want to go in.

If they want to flee, let them flee. Our movies are full of "Escape" type movies.

Try not to criticize them for making a decision you wouldn't make. Instead, learn from them. Try to understand why they responded with the decision they made after your initial presentation. Try to understand why they didn't see great value in clearing their name. Gamers are rational human beings. If they declined your obvious plot hook, there was a reason (even if it was just to piss off the GM).

If you can understand why they made the decision they made this time, it will help you to improve your understanding of how you should roleplay as a GM in the future.

 

[Remathilis]

Well, not alot to add, but I'll throw my ideas trying to see things from "thier" perspective...

* No Ressurection: Good Story, but makes for Cowardly PCs. Seriously. When a wayward crit can end a beloved PC and death is "real" to them, they choose to avoid/flee rather than fight.
* Connections: Do they have any REASON to clear thier names in said kingdom? Is it thier homeland? Are they known or unknown? Famous of Infamous? Do they have connections (family, friends, lords, guilds) to tie them there? Lots of people pack up and leave when they feel no connection to thier homes, the PCs might be doing the sensible thing.
* The Show goes on: Ok this one is from a DM perspective. Let them reach new homes. Pitch a couple new story ideas at them to reflect a "start over", but keep a couple bounty hunters after them. Or let word reach thier new home and the new nations guards question them. Or a shady stranger gives info on who MIGHT be involved, but can he be trusted? Or a poor old woman who listens to the hearlds points them out as the assassins in the middle of town. Small things to reveal they ARE still known as killers, but shift the focus away to something they would rather do... (and ask what they would like to do...)

 

[painandgreed]

I don't think deciding to flee from a problem that seems over their head and not one they want to mess with necisarily means they should be playing farmers and smiths. Neither do I think running away is what any non-good character would do. I can think of lots of good characters I've played with that would have run away and lots of non-good, even evil that would have stuck around to kill those who framed them if not clear their names. I've seen more, who do value the kingdom their in and think that it is good simply surrender to the good clergy and expect magic and the system to clear them and find the real assassins.

Anyway, it sounds like you've got a story that the party simply isn't interested in or has presented them with one of those pesky role-playing problems ("My character would do this..."). Best choice is to end it and get it over with. They try and run away. They get captured. They're stuck in jail but are eventually free when cleared by magic and the authrities who have figured out what is going on. The party members that they leave behind are free and get to continue to investigate for a bit, earning more XP than those that fled, but are also captured and the plot is resolved. Of course, don't forget to charge them with any real crimes they commit in an effort to flee the ones they didn't, such as killing guards who try and arrest them.

 

[scipio]

Talked a bit with the group. Seems like no one is on the same page. A character that got captured wants to work with the bad guys. He was captured after killing a civilian (thought it would be the quickest way to get into the dungeon). Of course, the most of the party doesn't want anything to do with him, as this is his first display of irrational violence (backstory issue),though others, for no real reason, want to rescue him. The city they're in is hostile now, and so it seems likely they will be captured. I'm about to scrap this thing and start over, [sarcasm]we'll do the goat-herding idea, with combat against things that eat goats. Your farm fails if you lose 20% of your goats to attacks, disease, etc. And I'll run resurrection, so you can raise/reincarnate your goats. In fact, reincarnation could diversify your farm - it's perfect. The PCs will have a reason to stand their ground (their goats), a reason to play the game (not giving up their beloved farm), etc. Sounds less interesting than political intrigue and combat against brilliant opponents, but who am I to judge?[/sarcasm]

 

[Steel_Wind]

They are not danger adverse - they are plot adverse.

They are not enjoying this particular plotline and want to escape it. It may be that they don't like this plot - or they may be the types that resents any "metaplot" for whatever reason at this juncture.

Whatever the case - there is a disconnect which needs resolution. Go pick off one of the "lil sick ones" from the herd; split one of your players off from the group for coffee outisde of normal game context and find out what the problem is. Repeat as necessary until you have figured out your players' problem and make adjustments.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'll run resurrection, so you can raise/reincarnate your goats.

I don't think that would be economically viable.

 

[Kast]

Came late to the thread, so it seems things are resolving themselves. However in defense of the players, the first thing I'd have done as well was try to escape the kingdom. That should have been included in part of the planning for the story arc. It's very reasonable that the PCs don't think they can "fight city hall". Justice systems in fantasy settings have never been known to be that just.

If I couldn't flee, then the next thing I would try is bribing the charge away. If that failed, I'd probably try hiding out. Only if all else fails would I take on the problem in a confrontational manner.