D&D 5E Where in FR do you want the next big adventure book to go?

[Azzy]

The point being, it's not possible, since prior to 1507 accurate maps (and hence clearly defined boarders) did not exist.

That pretty much furthers my point. Without accurate maps, accurate borders really can't exist (unless all the borders are based entirely on geographical features like rivers, oceans, mountain ranges, etc.). So the defined borders on these modern maps are best-guess assumptions rather than accurate depictions of what the nations of their time period would understand about their borders.

 

[Eltab]

The FR - especially the Sword Coast - does not have fully-developed modern States. But the Realms does have an excessive number of monsters that would eat most attempts at Border Patrol patrols. You don't see lines on the map because "how far does City Lord's writ reach?" is fluid.

 

[tetrasodium]

That pretty much furthers my point. Without accurate maps, accurate borders really can't exist (unless all the borders are based entirely on geographical features like rivers, oceans, mountain ranges, etc.). So the defined borders on these modern maps are best-guess assumptions rather than accurate depictions of what the nations of their time period would understand about their borders.

are you trying to claim that the ruling body for the cities of waterdeep daggerford & icewind dale don't have any vague clue what the borders of those lands where they patrol tax manage & claim under their authority, or are you just changing the topic because you realize there is absolutely no way all those tier 3 4 & up casters, dragons, & so forth can't make an accurate map over the generations some of those cities have existed? They have accurate enough navigational capabilities for ocean trade & in fact waterdeep claims being a hub of such trade as one of its claims to fame... do all of those ships just luck out & unload in the first port they manage to stumble across before starvation & dehydration set in on the wandering ships?

@Eltab What does the sword coast have to do with FR's most well known cities of trade & culture? Are you claiming that waterdeep daggerford icewind dale & so forth does not have the ability to confidentially manage its own lands beyond the city walls despite claiming to be a city with 2 million people & scads of high level NPCs living there?

The two of you might as well be saying "The Roman empire had no idea what lands they conquered, taxed, & managed trade through... nor did they know where they built/maintained roads that still exist to this day in many cases or where those roads went"

 

[Eltab]

@Eltab What does the sword coast have to do with FR's most well known cities of trade & culture?

You do not have to like the setting.
You do not have to use the setting in your home game.
You do not have to enter a thread about the setting and threadcrap it.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I don't know why I need to say this (it should be obvious) but if you're not a fan of FR, that is completely fine. But this thread is not the place to air those grievances, so if you have a bone to pick make your own thread to list your complaints there.

 

[Demetrios1453]

That pretty much furthers my point. Without accurate maps, accurate borders really can't exist (unless all the borders are based entirely on geographical features like rivers, oceans, mountain ranges, etc.). So the defined borders on these modern maps are best-guess assumptions rather than accurate depictions of what the nations of their time period would understand about their borders.

And even where obvious borders exist, they actually weren't always the "real" border. A good example of this is the Roman Empire, which had rivers and lines of walls (limes) which appear to demarcate its borders. But (1): they didn't have those everywhere, so when it comes to areas without them, such as Dacia and north Africa (for the most part for both), you'll see maps showing wildly differing areas of Roman control. And (2): even in places where they did, the actual control didn't stop at the river or wall. Everyone "knows" that Hadrian's Wall was the usual limit of Roman control in Britain, but, even during those times that the Romans didn't "officially" advance to the Antonine Wall between the Firths in Scotland, there were still Roman forward posts a good distance beyond the wall, again reaching well into southern Scotland. The same with the Rhine and Danube frontiers (and the limes Germanicus in the angle between them) - there were still Roman outposts well beyond the rivers.

But this is getting a bit off subject. The nations of the Realms are of course quite a bit more technologically advanced and have more sophisticated international relationships than the Romans. And, beyond that, they have magic to assist in mapping and maintaining actual "hard" borders where nations actually neighbor each other.

 

[squibbles]

/commence to tar pit myself in a pedantic and unnecessary internet argument about how European history informs the verisimilitude of a fictional place

It would be more interesting if you provided maps from those time periods to see how they depicted their own borders as opposed to the modern estimates.

The point being, it's not possible, since prior to 1507 accurate maps (and hence clearly defined boarders) did not exist.

You guys are right about the maps; Medieval maps generally don't display clear borders. But that's not @tetrasodium 's main point.

That point:

[Medieval and early modern European polities] sure as heck knew what lands they taxed patrolled & clamed as their own along with the rough area where their foes allies & trading partners did the same to the point where they could point at them on a map.

And the point is fundamentally correct.

People in other times were no less intelligent than we are (Flynn Effect notwithstanding) and they were pretty good at knowing the things that they needed to know to live. A villager in rural France might never have seen a map, but she would know who the local lord was, who the ruler of the nearest city was, and who the king was--because these would have been important things for her to know. Similarly, the king--even if his maps were rubbish--would know which cities, towns, and productive regions were under his control, what geographical features demarcated the borders of those places, whether control of them was contested (and by whom), and what the neighboring polities were--again, because it would have been important for him to know those things for dynastic security, tax collection, and/or levying soldiers.

There are, in principle, borders that could be drawn on a Sword Coast map, depicting which areas each polity de jure or de facto controls and understands itself to control.

The FR - especially the Sword Coast - does not have fully-developed modern States. But the Realms does have an excessive number of monsters that would eat most attempts at Border Patrol patrols. You don't see lines on the map because "how far does City Lord's writ reach?" is fluid.

"How far does City Lord's writ reach?" is also fluid in 2020 Afghanistan, Syria, Morocco, Yemen, DRC, Sudan, Myanmar, Ukraine, etc. We are still able to draw borders that demarcate the nominal territorial control of those countries.


But at bottom, the Sword Coast isn't supposed to be a plausible quasi-historical place. It's FR's Middle Earth pastiche, just as Cormyr is the Medieval France pastiche, Mulhorand is the ancient Egypt pastiche, and so on.

/end pedantry

I'd personally like to see an adventure set in and around the Moonsea or the Unapproachable East.

 

[Marandahir]

Hi so slight Necro, but we know that we’re getting the next adventure path and AL season in late summer, so I’ve been thinking of it.

It won’t be Moonsea, Monshae Isles, or Border Kingdoms because those are all claimed by AL. AL’s standard seasons have been developing the Moonsea and they’ve granted the CCC adventures on DMs Guild the chance to create their own tales and locations around the Moonsea. Developing it proper with WotC details would be counterproductive to the goals of a living, community-driven FR around the Moonsea.

Similarly, Baldman Games has the story claims to AL-legal adventures in the Moonshaes, and wrote a high quality regional gazetteer for it that you can print on demand. And Ed Greenwood has been doing the same with the Border Kingdoms.

And Calimshan wouldn’t have been given to Guild Adepts to write a regional guide that came out last year if there was a plan anytime soon to adventure there.

Neverwinter was a BIG focus for 4e FR, so I doubt we’re going back there. It’s been in the background of much of the earlier hardcover stories in 5e (such as Storm King’s Thunder).

While I’d love to visit the Sea of Fallen Stars, Ghosts of Saltmarsh sort of locks out maritime adventures in any major capacity. We’ll a storyline with themes we haven’t seen yet.

I also don’t think we’ll go to other continents, or too far off the Sword Coast+ map that was made so gorgeously for 5e. There are sensitivity issues with visiting “fantasy version of x culture” and the closer they stay to home base the easier it is to avoid racist depictions. If they’re going to do East Asian or Arabian Nights or Mesoamerican or Australian inspired fantasy, I imagine it will be with entirely new settings that are written by fans who come from those cultures that are being adapted from. Kara-Tur etc will still exist but by keeping it vague, they allow players to imagine those settings the ways the want.

So both Chult and Icewind Dale were just barely out of view from that big map of the North. I think they’ll go to similar margins or slightly off it next.

Personally, I’d like to see Amn, Cormyr, the Anauroch Desert & Netheril proper. I could one of those two big cities featured, or else a desert-based adventure in the Anauroch. We’ve had jungle, we’ve had ice, we’ve had water, we’ve had Hell, Shadowfell & desert adventures sounds about right for the next one.

 

[Parmandur]

Hi so slight Necro, but we know that we’re getting the next adventure path and AL season in late summer, so I’ve been thinking of it.

It won’t be Moonsea, Monshae Isles, or Border Kingdoms because those are all claimed by AL. AL’s standard seasons have been developing the Moonsea and they’ve granted the CCC adventures on DMs Guild the chance to create their own tales and locations around the Moonsea. Developing it proper with WotC details would be counterproductive to the goals of a living, community-driven FR around the Moonsea.

Similarly, Baldman Games has the story claims to AL-legal adventures in the Moonshaes, and wrote a high quality regional gazetteer for it that you can print on demand. And Ed Greenwood has been doing the same with the Border Kingdoms.

And Calimshan wouldn’t have been given to Guild Adepts to write a regional guide that came out last year if there was a plan anytime soon to adventure there.

Neverwinter was a BIG focus for 4e FR, so I doubt we’re going back there. It’s been in the background of much of the earlier hardcover stories in 5e (such as Storm King’s Thunder).

While I’d love to visit the Sea of Fallen Stars, Ghosts of Saltmarsh sort of locks out maritime adventures in any major capacity. We’ll a storyline with themes we haven’t seen yet.

I also don’t think we’ll go to other continents, or too far off the Sword Coast+ map that was made so gorgeously for 5e. There are sensitivity issues with visiting “fantasy version of x culture” and the closer they stay to home base the easier it is to avoid racist depictions. If they’re going to do East Asian or Arabian Nights or Mesoamerican or Australian inspired fantasy, I imagine it will be with entirely new settings that are written by fans who come from those cultures that are being adapted from. Kara-Tur etc will still exist but by keeping it vague, they allow players to imagine those settings the ways the want.

So both Chult and Icewind Dale were just barely out of view from that big map of the North. I think they’ll go to similar margins or slightly off it next.

Personally, I’d like to see Amn, Cormyr, the Anauroch Desert & Netheril proper. I could one of those two big cities featured, or else a desert-based adventure in the Anauroch. We’ve had jungle, we’ve had ice, we’ve had water, we’ve had Hell, Shadowfell & desert adventures sounds about right for the next one.

I wouldn't rule out the Moonshae Isles or Neverwinter, for any reason here. Just because AL has dipped it's toes into an area doesn't put it off limits. The Moonshae Isles are actually quite large.

 

[Sithlord]

Kara-Tur or Al-Qadin