D&D 4E Where was 4e headed before it was canned?

[Garthanos]

Short answer... whatever I as the DM and my players agree upon (see above).

so your players go through the books and say no.... sure

 

[Imaro]

so your players go through the books and say no.... sure

Ok I'm lost... go through the books and say no to what?

 

[Garthanos]

Ok I'm lost... go through the books and say no to what?

"Short answer... whatever I as the DM and my players agree upon (see above). "

Implies players have some power when really the DM is the sole master over this. Players getting to say no that spell cannot do this

 

[Imaro]

"Short answer... whatever I as the DM and my players agree upon (see above). "

Implies players have some power when really the DM is the sole master over this. Players getting to say no that spell cannot do this

It means we discuss changes in session zero and yes the players can decide they don't like something (not limited to how a spell works) and I can be overruled or convinced to change my mind. Doesn't happen often since they usually trust me but it has happened before.

 

[Garthanos]

Indeed, WotC went to some trouble to make all Skill-avoiding Spells both cost resources and have major complications inherent in their usage.

Really paltry list of things skills can do then

Open a lock quietly, without alerting an army of Sahuagin to the player's presence and location.

Convince somebody to help or not hinder you without causing violent consequences later on.

Moving freely without resource usage.

and if you entirely prevent all skill use to resource free zone you have actually banished it to mediocrity

 

[Garthanos]

Not everything needs to be done tons of times its why feather fall at-will is so silly when called epic

this is where skill effects can be mediocre including movement ones... just because it can be repeated many times does not necessarily make it more valuable.

 

[Parmandur]

Really paltry list of things skills can do then

and if you entirely prevent all skill use to resource free zone you have actually banished it to mediocrity

That was just off of the top of my head: pretty much across the board, letting the Skilled do their thing is going to be the best option, rather than spells.

 

[Garthanos]

That was just off of the top of my head: pretty much across the board, letting the Skilled do their thing is going to be the best option, rather than spells.

So tell me about rituals and how they are better without resource costs....

 

[Garthanos]

Why arent poor skill checks causing the same problems as those spells? I am quite serious.

A failed attempt to get someone to do what you want can both cause hostility and and its random chance whether you get the benefit at all.

 

[Garthanos]

Teleport seems to be significantly better than overland travel and survival skills for many many things