D&D 5E Wherein we discuss spells and other magical things.

[Oofta]

The example requires you to be the one swinging the hammer, from inside the refrigerator. The point is, if you feel an impact when you punch the inside of the sphere, you will feel an impact when you fall 50 feet in the sphere. If you don't feel a punching impact, there shouldn't be a fall impact.

By that logic the magic refrigerator should work. Somebody can bang away at the refrigerator's exterior with a sledgehammer all day, pepper it with arrows, set it on fire and do me no damage whatsoever. Why would it? People in cars get hit by lightning (or fallen power line) and walk away without harm because they are in a faraday cage.

Drop that refrigerator off a tall enough cliff and you're dead. It's simple physics, it's the sudden deceleration as your body slams into the interior of the fridge that kills you.

The spell does not specify what will happen in this situation so it's up to the DM to make a ruling. I've given my ruling and my reasoning. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If the occupant didn't suffer HP damage, why would they be unconscious or stunned?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

By that logic the magic refrigerator should work. Somebody can bang away at the refrigerator's exterior with a sledgehammer all day, pepper it with arrows, set it on fire and do me no damage whatsoever. Why would it? People in cars get hit by lightning (or fallen power line) and walk away without harm because they are in a faraday cage.

Drop that refrigerator off a tall enough cliff and you're dead. It's simple physics, it's the sudden deceleration as your body slams into the interior of the fridge that kills you.

The spell does not specify what will happen in this situation so it's up to the DM to make a ruling. I've given my ruling and my reasoning. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

The fridge can take a lot of damage and it's outside will be deformed, but it simply isn't enough energy to reach the occupant inside. Hit the refrigerator with a freight train, the occupant will be dead.

Not so with the ORS.

 

[jaelis]

If you really want to say you can't transfer physical (as opposed to magical) energy through the sphere, then it would be impossible to move the sphere. Because when you push on the sphere to make it move, you change the kinetic energy of the matter inside. The spell says you can push on the sphere to move it, so I guess they don't mean that it is impervious to physical energy.

 

[steeldragons]

If the occupant didn't suffer HP damage, why would they be unconscious or stunned?

Why couldn't they be? By definition, it's a condition imposed on a target, not HP damage. A mechanical distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.

And one that could explain/handle the bizarre dichotomy of a magical barrier that protects you from HP damage...when you've fallen off a cliff.

The other thing I see here, and I haven't read the 5e description, but the "hamster ball" thing seems to bare this out...Resilient Sphere is not the same as "Telekinetic Sphere," wherein the encased IS, by definition, floating in the middle of the sphere and thus suffers no impact, from any direction, from the sphere or anything outside of it.

With Resilient sphere, clearly, the "sphere" is falls because the person inside in falling, and pressing against the inside of the sphere in a downward force. That downward force will come to an abrupt end when hitting the ground, receiving an equal and opposite force in an upward direction.

IF we are saying the Resilient sphere is accepting, even negating, the brunt of the HP damage that upward force would instill, the interior being is still being thrown/"bounced" upward (and conceivably all over within the sphere) without the corresponding HP damage (cuz: MAGIC). They can be unconscious or stunned from that "knocking around" inside the solid energy sphere without having actually taken any HP damage from the fall.

 

[Oofta]

The fridge can take a lot of damage and it's outside will be deformed, but it simply isn't enough energy to reach the occupant inside. Hit the refrigerator with a freight train, the occupant will be dead.

Not so with the ORS.

Hit a refrigerator with a train and a couple of things will happen.

1) the refrigerator is crushed, as is the occupant.

2) the refrigerator has it's inertial momentum [note: this probably isn't the correct phrase, forgive me I'm not a physicist] change from 0 (standing still from the perspective of the occupant) to 60 MPH in an instant.

Hit a sphere with a train and

1) The sphere is undamaged, as is the occupant - from the initial impact.

2) The occupant of the sphere experiences an immediate change in their weight known as g-forces. They suddenly "weigh" a ton. The occupant is thrown violently against the interior of the indestructible sphere breaking bones, causing massive concussion and probably dying.

Even if the occupant of the sphere was braced for impact, the sudden shift in g-forces would still kill. The brain sloshing around in your skull would probably be enough to kill you.

Both result in death of the occupant. Unless the sphere has inertial dampers which somehow compensate for the sudden change. Accelerate the sphere slowly and there is no damage, any more than when you accelerate your car.

Accelerate your magic hamster ball slowly and nothing happens. Hit the sphere with any amount of force that is realistically represented in D&D and the occupant may be jostled.

Of course that's just my ruling. Your magic hamster ball may have inertial dampers. Just don't conflate indestructable package with indestructable contents.

 

[Cognomen's Cassowary]

Nothing---not physical objects, energy, or other spell effects---can pass through the barrier . . .

I think that this is unambiguous. The passenger cannot gain energy, which must include kinetic energy from falling. He or she would therefore "impact" after a long fall with no more kinetic energy than he or she had at the start, which is none at all.

In fact, this raises the prospect that the sphere and its passenger would not fall in the first place. If kinetic energy is gained by work being done on an object, and if the contents of the sphere cannot gain energy, the implication is that gravity cannot do work on the contents. That leads to a whole world of odd complications, including that the sphere itself being weightless would make it lighter than the atmosphere, so it would immediately begin floating upward. That is if physical forces act on it at all, which is not clear from the spell's description. Even if that did not happen, any creature could pick it up and hurl it into outer space. The passenger, of course, would be unaware of any of it until the spell ended, because he or she would be blinded and deafened to the outside world and unable to sense changes in velocity.

All of which, I think, leaves us only with more questions.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If you really want to say you can't transfer physical (as opposed to magical) energy through the sphere, then it would be impossible to move the sphere. Because when you push on the sphere to make it move, you change the kinetic energy of the matter inside. The spell says you can push on the sphere to move it, so I guess they don't mean that it is impervious to physical energy.

Spells, almost by definition, break rules of reality- or in the alternative- work with rules unavailable to those who don't have access to it. The reason why the occupant can roll the ball is because the spell's designer thought things through and designed it to work that way.

Why couldn't they be? By definition, it's a condition imposed on a target, not HP damage. A mechanical distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.

Cause and effect is why. The contrition is imposed on a target for a reason- physical trauma, deprivation of food/drink/air, etc. if the condition is imposed without some such cause, there is no reason for the condition to be imposed at all.

To put it differently, the only way in which the occupant of the ORS could experience G-force effects is if the force of impact- the kinetic energy- crosses the barrier of the ORS, which we know it does not do by the spell's description. After all, what is our speeding freight train but a very large blunt weapon?

IF we are saying the Resilient sphere is accepting, even negating, the brunt of the HP damage that upward force would instill, the interior being is still being thrown/"bounced" upward (and conceivably all over within the sphere) without the corresponding HP damage (cuz: MAGIC). They can be unconscious or stunned from that "knocking around" inside the solid energy sphere without having actually taken any HP damage from the fall.

Impossible, since the impact of hitting the ground cannot be transferred across the ORS barrier.

Hit a refrigerator with a train and a couple of things will happen.

1) the refrigerator is crushed, as is the occupant.

2) the refrigerator has it's inertial momentum [note: this probably isn't the correct phrase, forgive me I'm not a physicist] change from 0 (standing still from the perspective of the occupant) to 60 MPH in an instant.

Hit a sphere with a train and

1) The sphere is undamaged, as is the occupant - from the initial impact.

2) The occupant of the sphere experiences an immediate change in their weight known as g-forces. They suddenly "weigh" a ton. The occupant is thrown violently against the interior of the indestructible sphere breaking bones, causing massive concussion and probably dying.

There is zero logical reason to distinguish between steps 1 & 2 with the ORS. Remember, physics doesn't care whether A hits B or B hits A, it just cares about the transference of forces between them. Egg hitting a brick at 5mph is the same physics equation as for brick hitting egg at 5mph.

In step one, the train hits the ORS with enough force to send the ball flying 0-60mph in an instance. We know reading the spell the inhabitant takes no damage.

But in the equations, that hit is no different from the one that reduces the ORS from 60-0mph. The forces incurred are identical. If the math is the same, the results are the same.

 

[Lanefan]

I think that this is unambiguous. The passenger cannot gain energy, which must include kinetic energy from falling. He or she would therefore "impact" after a long fall with no more kinetic energy than he or she had at the start, which is none at all.

In fact, this raises the prospect that the sphere and its passenger would not fall in the first place. If kinetic energy is gained by work being done on an object, and if the contents of the sphere cannot gain energy, the implication is that gravity cannot do work on the contents. That leads to a whole world of odd complications, including that the sphere itself being weightless would make it lighter than the atmosphere, so it would immediately begin floating upward. That is if physical forces act on it at all, which is not clear from the spell's description. Even if that did not happen, any creature could pick it up and hurl it into outer space. The passenger, of course, would be unaware of any of it until the spell ended, because he or she would be blinded and deafened to the outside world and unable to sense changes in velocity.

All of which, I think, leaves us only with more questions.

I had considered this free-floating idea also, but the ability to "hamster" while in the sphere rules it out: it tells us gravity works within the sphere as normal (or else the occupant wouldn't be able to hamster around) which means a) the weight of the occupant holds the sphere to the ground and b) if there's no ground underneath, the occupant - and thus the sphere - are going to fall until there is.

Now, what happens if the sphere lands in water?

Lan-"I have this vision of a railway switching yard where the engineers are playing train-soccer with one of these spheres"-efan

 

[Oofta]

But in the equations, that hit is no different from the one that reduces the ORS from 60-0mph. The forces incurred are identical.

If you rule that the occupant of the sphere ignores basic Newtonian laws of motion and inertia, that's fine.

I don't think the sphere says one way or another anything about this topic.

I see no reason to believe that the occupant would suddenly not have any mass or inertia. If they have mass then they have potential kinetic energy.

As the sphere falls off the cliff, the occupant gains momentum. A body in motion will continue moving in a straight line at a constant velocity until some external force acts on it. In this case that something will be an invulnerable sphere.

There is no "transfer" of energy from outside the sphere. The damage is not caused by something external to the sphere - it's caused by the fact that if the sphere can be moved it follows that the occupant of the sphere can be moved. Since the occupant can be moved they have velocity and momentum. If they have velocity and momentum, the sudden reduction (or increase in your train example) of velocity is what causes the damage.