D&D 3E/3.5 Which 3.5 spells aren't improvements

[Psion]

(Not sure if this is best off in rules or house rules, so I'll ping both places to cover all bases.)

In my last game, I kept using 3.0 spell lists to keep things consistent (and so I could use my nifty Green Ronin spell grimoires), only updating to 3.5 spells that really needed it (haste, harm, etc.)

Now I am starting a new game (well restarting, but the only old character is not a spellcaster) and don't have continuity to maintain, and for ease of reference purposes I am thinking of using mostly 3.5 and modding or using the old versions of spells where necessary.

So, IYO, what spells in 3.5 did you prefer the old edition for or otherwise think needs tweaked?

If it is of any help, I am using old rules for facing and cover/concealment, and have some other rules that might affect things. Also, I don't find de-dicing to be a good thing, because it cuts down metamagic options.

Edited list considering recommendations:

• General -- up 1 min/level spells to 10 mins/level (?)
• Blasphemy - too powerful
• Buffs (Bulls strength, etc.) - Random version with duration as above.
• Darkness - I use the old concealment rules.
• Recombine Eyebite, and skip the [evil]
• Recombine Emotion
• Identify - house rule
• Polymorph spells - using variants listed later
• Scry (and Greater Scry) use 3.0 version, as modified by BoEM III (for 3.0)
• Shield - too weak compared to mage armor, go with 3.0 (errata) version.
• Sleep - mentioned in another recent thread.
• Recombine Symbol

The list is getting longer, perhaps I should consider which changes are worth it instead.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Well, an obvious one would be Haste, but another one that sucks now is Spider Climb. It used to be referred to as a benchmark 1st-level spell- meaning, it was an example of an average 1st-level spell- but now, they made it 2nd-level.

 

[jessemock]

So, IYO, what spells in 3.5 did you prefer the old edition for or otherwise think needs tweaked?

If it is of any help, I am using old rules for facing and cover/concealment, and have some other rules that might affect things. Also, I don't find de-dicing to be a good thing, because it cuts down metamagic options.

We're in something of a similar situation: we've been running a game of non-casters (or 'mild' casters), but we're moving on soon, which has entailed a review of the new spells.

So, here's one: am I on crack or did Polymorh Other jump four levels and turn into Polymorh Any Object?!

 

[Bauglir]

Polymorph Other was replaced with Baleful Polymorph as an attack spell.

 

[MerakSpielman]

• Darkness - I use the old concealment rules.

Amen to that, man.

Why don't they just call the spell "Shadowy Illumination" and have done with it? I still haven't been able to figure out if Darkness now brightens an area that is already pitch black.

 

[drnuncheon]

Well, here's the ones my players complained about the loudest:

• fly being split into fly and overland flight (and the reduction in speed of magic carpets, from the owner of said carpet)
• teleport's new range limitation (can't say I'm really opposed to this - in fact, I like the Arcana Unearthed version even better)
• Enormous duration reductions on invisibility and improved invisibility - 1 round/level for the latter changes it from a utility spell to a straight combat boost
• They hated the new haste so much we kept the old one (although we did fix the other 'h's)

 

[drnuncheon]

I still haven't been able to figure out if Darkness now brightens an area that is already pitch black.

I think that by wording, yes, by intent, no.

 

[Psion]

UltimateGabe... actually Haste was sorely in need of revision AFAIAC. I like the new version much better.

jessemock -- yeah, I guess they had lots of problems with people turning their party into stone giants. Which you gotta admit, is really flexible and powerful.

That said, my group never did it (shrug). Guess it just goes to show how D&D is not the same game to all people and one man's "crucially necessary" change is a pain in the neck of the other.

Perhaps the thing to do is keep polymorph other and add a few levels too it, and keep baleful polymorph as introduced.

 

[Psion]

drnuncheon

As stated, I am happy with the haste change. I know it was a big change, but as I am now at a clean break with the old game, I don't see any point in keeping it.

Teleport I thought was actually a pretty reasonable change, as after you wizard made 9th level, it was THE way to travel.

Plus, in my campaign, I don't want arcane spellcasters to be the end-all be-all of instant transit (in Second World, those are vector wardens). I think not having one transit solution opens up a few more campaign possiblities.


Invisibility and flight -- I think perhaps they might have cut a little too deep into the durations. A mod might be reserved.

 

[jessemock]

Polymorph Other was replaced with Baleful Polymorph as an attack spell.

Dude, I don't know what Baleful Polymorph is--but I know that it ain't Polymorph Other.

They did attempt some interesting marketing on it: nerf it, bump it a level, call it something 'tougher'. What?