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Message: <blockquote data-quote="D'karr" data-source="post: 6178430" data-attributes="member: 336">Okay, so if the adventure writers were "pressured" to do simple, combat-heavy adventures then it should follow that it is not the system that forces that inflexibility, but editorial/publisher mandates.  Then how come the game system is being blamed for inflexibility?It is clear to me that some writers understood how to make the system work out.  Chris Sims did it with his D&D Encounters Season of Keep on the Borderlands, and the format for D&D Encounters can be viewed as extremely "inflexible."  Chris Perkins did it with his adaptations of the Against the Giants Series.  Steve Townshend did it with both Madness at Gardmore Abbey, and his D&D Encounters Season Beyond the Crystal Cave, co-written with Chris Sims.So I understand editorial mandates, I just don't understand the logical leap to blame the system.I have converted and run I6-Ravenloft, A1-A4-Slavers Series,  U1-Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, some sections of B2-Keep on the Borderlands (the Caves of Chaos), X1-Isle of Dread, and countless other TSR and Paizo adventures for use with 4e.  I have not changed the structure of the adventures.  I've used the tools provided in the game and tweaked to taste.  When a combat in one of those adventures is insignificant, minions and lower level standards work just fine to emulate the same type of hectic chaos.  In A2, when the party enters the stockade, and are discovered by the guards on the battlements this turned into a battle with mooks (artillery minions), and a skill challenge to get out of the courtyard alive.  These are all tools that the game already provides.  The only adventure that I had to actually tweak its structure and do a lot of "house-ruling" on was A4-In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords.  Of course that is because of all the adventures this one is the one that most cuts against the grain of any edition of D&D.  Even then I used the vast majority of tools directly from the game system (skill challenges, minions, lower level standard creatures,page 42, and set-piece combat).  The final confrontation with the slavelords on their ship was awesome.    The fact that the writers chose not to use the appropriate tools to showcase their system was a detriment to adventures published for 4e.  But blaming the system is not an excuse for poor adventure writing, even with bad editorial mandates.   Same to you, I always enjoy your discussions.I agree, bad adventures are a dime a ton for any edition of D&D.  Even some of the "classics" suffer from a certain type of myopia, but it's kind of understandable to a point.  It's also interesting that so many people have taken Paizo adventures, obviously written for a different edition/game, and successfully converted them for 4e use.  I found that Paizo adventures worked better for 4e than they did for 3.x or Pathfinder.The early LFR mods were "atrocious" IMO. I believe that I could count in one hand the very few that were standouts.  They suffered from the same myopia that all the other published adventures suffered.  Eventually they got much better with solid "storylines/story hooks" that the players would actually discover and actively participate in.  I've also seen the stuff you guys wrote for Epic Level, and I'm very pleased to say that you guys have done an awesome job in attempting to break the mold.  Congratulations.  It is understandable that you guys have some restrictions due to the nature of the audience for the adventures, but I've seen your adventures and they are head and shoulders above what WotC has published.  They are better because they don't forget that there are more things to do than simply combat.  You guys emphasize that, even in a combat heavy mod.I think the real shame is that the writers are hiding behind the "game system" made me do it excuse when obviously others made some really good adventures with the same system, and even under stricter "inflexibility" (D&D Encounters).</blockquote>

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