Which Campaign Setting has the best fluff? Why?

[Arkhandus]

Dark Sun.

Cool fluff in the vein of.....

Wild, cannibal halflings descended from the original race that once had druidically bio-engineered symbiotes.

Thri-kreen.

Savage elves that pretty much everyone hates and are a constant threat in the desert.

Dragon-kings that are godlike former-humans transformed by psionics and sorcery, powered by defiling magic, ruling over city-states and feuding yet all striving to keep the greatest of their number contained in a pocket dimension prison so he won't destroy the world and them with it.

Psionics. And, yeah, magic too.

No gods, just elemental clerics and druids drawing power from the lords of the elemental planes, requiring strange and demanding sacrifices and tribulations to acquire the sponsorship of the elemental lords.

Secret psionic and wizardly societies vying for freedom against the oppressive dragon-kings and their city-states.

Half-giants, half-dwarves (mul), and other engineered or nigh-extinct races trying to survive the dragon-kings' depredations and the monstrosities of the deserts, and all them elven and halfling barbarians too.

Psionics.

 

[Testament]

I am I the only one here who finds it amusing that Nisarg, one of the most vehement opponents of White Wolf and "intellectual snobbery" in gaming, is currently indulging in the EXACT thing that he periodically rants against?

For the love of Spork, throw aside the sociological examinations of FANTASY GAMING SETTINGS! Is it fun? Does it interest you? If you answer yes to both, then its a good setting for you.

I think we're forgetting that important detail.

While we're on the point of medievalism though, I find FRealms to be much more jarring than Eberron, as while it has just as much magic, and a heck of a lot more high-level casters (you can't throw a rock down the street of Waterdeep without hitting a caster at least in the teen levels it seems!), it has absolutely no apparent application of it, like Eberron has. If you have to resort to historical and sociological analysis of Eberron to find holes in it, then i'd say its a pretty coherent setting.

 

[Mystery Man]

For the love of Spork, throw aside the sociological examinations of FANTASY GAMING SETTINGS! Is it fun? Does it interest you? If you answer yes to both, then its a good setting for you.

I would also invoke Spork's name and endorse that sentiment.

 

[Nisarg]

Aren't all so-called 'medieval' settings patchwork? Just take the Forgotten Realms. Is there anything medieval about them except the use of swords (and even this point is debatable)?. The society with its moral standards can be set somewhere in the 1970's or later (the last incarnation: much later ). The villages remind me of pre-WW II structures (maybe a bit earlier for the U.S.). Cities have often late 19th century maps (although TSR/WOTC is slightly better in this regard than what can be found in many d20 products). Actually, the FR have no medieval feeling to them, whatsoever. YMMV. Oh, yes, I forgot the nobility. That one fits better the period of your expertise than the Middle Ages.

I cannot really comment on this one. I don't know enough about Eberron . No interest .

Everything you mention about the FR is correct, its just that I had already known that FR was that way, I don't personally play in them much; its just that I had higher hopes for Eberron and was disappointed.

Nisarg

 

[Nisarg]

I am I the only one here who finds it amusing that Nisarg, one of the most vehement opponents of White Wolf and "intellectual snobbery" in gaming, is currently indulging in the EXACT thing that he periodically rants against?

For the love of Spork, throw aside the sociological examinations of FANTASY GAMING SETTINGS! Is it fun? Does it interest you? If you answer yes to both, then its a good setting for you.

Its not the exact same thing, because I'm not advocating that the actual play in Eberron should in any way not be fun. I'm saying that if they bothered to go halfway to making such an effort they should have gone all the way.
Of course, if a setting tries to be completely socially/technologically realistic, but advocates that you run it in a boring way, that's just as bad or worse as doing it half-assed but at least advocating that you run it fun.

That gets to the core of the difference with the FR setting, and why the FR setting, while not being my cup of tea, also isn't as bothersome to me. The FR makes no effort at all in this department, and I can live with that. Its a case where doing it half-assed is worse than not doing it at all. Its like the difference between a "historical" movie that clearly has nothing to with history and a "historical" movie that purports to be an accurate representation of history but isn't.

Nisarg

 

[Turjan]

That gets to the core of the difference with the FR setting, and why the FR setting, while not being my cup of tea, also isn't as bothersome to me. The FR makes no effort at all in this department, and I can live with that. Its a case where doing it half-assed is worse than not doing it at all. Its like the difference between a "historical" movie that clearly has nothing to with history and a "historical" movie that purports to be an accurate representation of history but isn't.

This is finally the point where I understand where you come from. I was just typing a response telling you that I actually like the FR, despite all the points that I listed further above. But then I understood that it's about a setting pretending something that it's not. I have a similar problem with Dawnforge .

 

[Nightfall]

Right...

In any case, Scarred Lands!

That's all I have to say.

 

[WildWeasel]

Its like the difference between a "historical" movie that clearly has nothing to with history and a "historical" movie that purports to be an accurate representation of history but isn't.

And when did Eberron claim to be the latter and not the former?

For me, it's big rollicking cinematic fun, The Shadow meets Sky-Captain and the World of Tomorrow via way of The Maltese Falcon in a dark alley watched over by Fritz Leiber and Glen Cook. Yeah, it may not make sense deep down, but what D&D setting does, really? I'm not playing a sociological simulation, but an advanture RPG. As long as it hangs together well enough to provide a fun backdrop for such, it's doing its job.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

That gets to the core of the difference with the FR setting, and why the FR setting, while not being my cup of tea, also isn't as bothersome to me. The FR makes no effort at all in this department, and I can live with that. Its a case where doing it half-assed is worse than not doing it at all. Its like the difference between a "historical" movie that clearly has nothing to with history and a "historical" movie that purports to be an accurate representation of history but isn't.

I finally get where you're coming from about Eberron, and why you dislike it so.

Personally, I prefer the baby steps in the direction of realism that the setting took to nothing at all, but I can see why, if you were either expecting or hoping for something that went all the way, you would be disappointed.

We still differ on our interpretations of cause and effect in the 19th and early 20th centuries, though.

 

[Gez]

I can only guess, but I suppose Gez is referring to what you are told in the educational system. I can only compare the schools in Arizona and those in my European hometown, and whereas at home everybody had to learn quite a lot about the medieval society and history, there is taught absolutely nothing over here in Arizona. This may also explain one of my pet peeves: fantasy maps. I suppose it makes a difference if you have your medieval city centre in front of your eyes; otherwise there is absolutely no explanation how someone could come up with a map like that for, e.g., Freeport.

Yup. Here in Europe, you have medieval castles (ruined or preserved) everywhere. You have medieval churches, cathedrals, and monasteries. You have people living in houses that were built in the middle age. You have countless museums displaying our heritage from the Middle Age, and you have innumerable tales and legends from the Middle Age that are still associated to cities.

A few sights from Montpellier:
Celleneuve
Panoramic view of Montpellier's uptown. You'll notice, here and there, medieval and renaissance buildings. (As well as a few ugly "modern" warts. Yeeouch.)

The city of Tarascon is associated to the Tarasque.

The city of Lusignan, to the fey Melusine.

There's, of course, the Mont St. Michel.

Hey, just look at this site.
http://www.guild.cz/mojeskola/hi/fougeres.php

Don't worry, I don't understand any word of it either. But just look at the pictures for Aigues Mortes, Avignon, Carcassonne, Fougère, Foix, Montségur, Chinon, Gaillard... Heck, look at them all. They're not all in France, but they're all in Europe.

Nearby from me, the city of Sommières organize a medieval celebration every year. (Attracts LARPers like wasps to sugar, let me tell you.)

Displays of Europe's medieval (or older!) past are everywhere in Europe. Everybody there knows what a medieval castle really looks like, because everyone has seen several of them. Wonder why French wines are so often named "Chateau <Something>" or "Domaine de <Somewhere>" ? If you look at where exactly the vine grows, is harvested, etc., you'll have your answer as you find castles and manors.

It's obvious you won't find traces of Europe's medieval past in Canada or Latin America. (Except for a few things that may have been imported by wealthy excentrics or museums.)

It's also obvious that, as Turjan said, you'll learn about Arizona's past in Arizonian schools, China's past in Chinese schools, and Europe's past in European schools. I can tell you that in my school, I learned nothing about China's past, and only rough and vague things about the Americas' past (mostly, discovery, invasion, conquest, plunder, emancipation, wars, etc. -- the interactions with "our own" past).

That's why I said you, Nisarg, would have an unreliable vision of what medieval Europe was. And you proved you had, because you said the people of Khorvaire looked, lived, and acted medieval. This irrefutably proves you are wrong.