Which class for monstrous shamans?

[Slaved]

Swordsage, both monstrous shaman and swordsage have two s's in their titles.

What?

 

[Felix]

Witch alternate spell list from the DMG. Nobody ever gives that list any love.

 

[Imp]

Binders are pretty ace as shaman types too.

 

[frankthedm]

Druids with the PHB2 shapeshift variant.

Adepts are lousy. Bad Bab, bad spell stack. At best they Lightning bolt!, Lightning bolt!, Lightning bolt! off a wand* then cast a bestow curse on the first person that gets up to them.

*which I don't even think they don't get the gear GP to afford.

 

[Nifft]

Binders are pretty ace as shaman types too.

Yes! And if I may be forgiven for pimping my own creations, the Spirit Binders (variant Binders) in my sig are shaman-tastic.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Victim]

I don't use Adepts because of my unfamilarity with the spell list. Plus they suck. I have a better handle on the stuff a cleric or druid should be doing.

 

[Slaved]

Adepts are lousy. Bad Bab, bad spell stack. At best they Lightning bolt!, Lightning bolt!, Lightning bolt! off a wand* then cast a bestow curse on the first person that gets up to them.

If the monstrous shaman in question is being made up to a certain challenge rating then that might be a reason to use the adept. In order for that to work the other choices would have to all be consisdered associated levels while the adept would be considered nonassociated.

On a hill giant, for example, if the adept was the only nonassociated then I believe you could add on 12 levels of adept for a challenge rating increase of 6. You might even be able to add on 20 levels of adept for an increase in challenge rating of 10 but I am not sure about that.

 

[frankthedm]

If the monstrous shaman in question is being made up to a certain challenge rating then that might be a reason to use the adept. In order for that to work the other choices would have to all be consisdered associated levels while the adept would be considered nonassociated.

On a hill giant, for example, if the adept was the only nonassociated then I believe you could add on 12 levels of adept for a challenge rating increase of 6. You might even be able to add on 20 levels of adept for an increase in challenge rating of 10 but I am not sure about that.

If one is not using the PHB2 shape shifting variant, those druid levels should be non associated as well. Perhaps not the full 12 druid levels, but at least until the giant can wild shape into something large.

Adept levels are always non associated for monsters, just like any other NPC class.

 

[Slaved]

If one is not using the PHB2 shape shifting variant, those druid levels should be non associated as well. Perhaps not the full 12 druid levels, but at least until the giant can wild shape into something large.

Well, the rules is basically either or, but at first level a druid gets the spell Shillelagh which looks like it changes his attack routine from +16/+11 (2d8+10) to +17/+12 (4d8+11).

I do not know if that is enough for it to be considered associated or not but it looks scary to me!

Entangle + throwing big rocks kindof scares me too.

Adept levels are always non associated for monsters, just like any other NPC class.

They are, and the last line in the nonassociated section says as much, but the last line in the first paragraph says that once you get enough levels in it the class is considered associated so I could see two sides with both having rules support.

I will check the real book later, it might have an example or different text.

 

[frankthedm]

Well, the rules is basically either or, but at first level a druid gets the spell Shillelagh which looks like it changes his attack routine from +16/+11 (2d8+10) to +17/+12 (4d8+11).

I do not know if that is enough for it to be considered associated or not but it looks scary to me!

Shillelagh does not even touch greatclubs. Just staves and clubs. 1d8 for a large one of those goes to 3d6. A slight upgrade from the 2d8 of the normal greatclub, nowhere near 4d8.

They are, and the last line in the nonassociated section says as much, but the last line in the first paragraph says that once you get enough levels in it the class is considered associated so I could see two sides with both having rules support.

I'd say otherwise.