Which is better balanced?

[Ghostwind]

I haven't checked out Bastion since Spells & Magic came out; do they actually have decent artists now?

Well, if you haven't looked at a Bastion Press book since 2001, then you aren't really qualified to bash them, now are you? That would be like judging Sword & Fist against Iron Heroes. A whole different era in game design, literally.

Bastion Press has garned a bit of a rep among some folks who feel they must constantly bash the company because of art from the company's first two years. Todd left the company in 2002 and the only time you ever see an image by him in a later book is because it has been reused for a reason. Bastion Press uses a lot of very good artists now that include names like Jason Engle, Jeremy McHugh, Christopher Pickrell, Jeremy Jarvis, Bruce Colero, Ginger Kubric, and Phillip James (to name a few). Just pick up and look at the art in books like Torn Asunder, Wildwood, Into the Green, and Doom Striders. This is not the Bastion art of old.

Now back on topic, to compare Bastion's entire line of books against the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting line is not only unfair, it's almost troll-like. The poll, as it is worded, suggests this very thing. As previously stated, Bastion's Oathbound line is intentionally skewed to a higher power game. Everything in there is a bit over the top and balanced with that in mind. It's like comparing apples to oranges, they are two different fruits altogether. As for trying to compare Bastion's generic d20 line of books like Arms & Armor v3.5, Torn Asunder, and Into the Blue I would say that they as balanced (if not more so) than any FR book. Perhaps the original poster could clarify the poll better in his initial post, although the numbers are already heavily against Bastion because of the poor wording.

If you haven't picked up a Bastion book in awhile, then I strongly suggest you do so. Wildwood was just released recently and print copies will be at Gen Con. Torn Asunder won a Silver ENnie award last year for Best d20 Rules Supplement. Arms & Armor v3.5 has been given some very high (5-star) reviews here on EN World. This is not your father's Bastion Press and it shows by the number of people are picking up Bastion's books and using them in their games.

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Bastion Sucks (Judgment Pending)

Well, if you haven't looked at a Bastion Press book since 2001, then you aren't really qualified to bash them, now are you? That would be like judging Sword & Fist against Iron Heroes. A whole different era in game design, literally.

You're right, when looking at 3.0 products, there is no comparison between Bastion and Wotc. Wizards is clearly superior. Even the errata of Sword & Fist is preferable to the grotesque imbalances and lousy illustrations of Spells & Magic or Minions.

Admittedly, I was so disgusted with Bastion's 3.0 products, that I haven't really delved into a ton of their 3.5 material ... and it wasn't just the horrid artwork that scared me away either.

Still, I'm certainly willing to look over some of the newer Bastion publications on my next trip to the game store. However, I strongly suspect that I will not be overwhelmed with visions of roleplaying excellence.

My reservations aside, I'll give Bastion one more chance to impress me.

 

[Turjan]

You're right, when looking at 3.0 products, there is no comparison between Bastion and Wotc. Wizards is clearly superior. Even the errata of Sword & Fist is preferable to the grotesque imbalances and lousy artwork of Spells & Magic or Minions.

Count me baffled. Spells & Magic contains mostly very good artwork, and balance-wise it's also okay. I'd even count it among the best d20 supplements ever published *shrug*.

I prefer Minions in it's "Rebirth" incarnation (larger artwork + a version without the silly borders), but it's also a book I generally like, though it doesn't rank in the same category as Spells & Magic.

 

[Zjelani]

Still, I'm certainly willing to look over some of the newer Bastion publications on my next trip to the game store. However, I strongly suspect that I will not be overwhelmed with visions of roleplaying excellence.

Well, there's something to be said for approaching this with an open mind. Thank you.

 

[Psion]

You're right, when looking at 3.0 products, there is no comparison between Bastion and Wotc. Wizards is clearly superior. Even the errata of Sword & Fist is preferable to the grotesque imbalances and lousy illustrations of Spells & Magic or Minions.

Let me take this moment to politely disagree.

I still use Spells & Magic and Minions to this day. I was no fan of the artwork, but I thought that those two products had a lot more to offer my game than Tome & Blood, &cetara.

 

[gamecat]

"I wouldn't go plugging my material all over other people's threads. I got more sense than that .... Yeah, I remember plugging my material all over other people's threads ...."​

Rick James needs to go away.

 

[The Thayan Menace]

 

[Darrin Drader]

Forgotten Realms is produced by the largest, most well-known RPG company in the industry, and has had fans for 20 years or more. Forgotten Realms has four or more books released a year.

Oathbound is produced by a small independant publisher and has a fan base stretching back 3 years (maybe 4 years?). Oathbound has a total of six books since the beginning.

If you're looking for a popularity contest, its obvious that Forgotten Realms will win, and rightfully so. Frankly, in terms of balance, they are both consistent with themselves. I should know, I've worked on both lines.

 

[DaveMage]

I love both lines.

Oathbound is the only 3rd party setting that when reading it made me want to start a campaign in it RIGHT NOW.

I've loved FR since it was first released as well.

I think both settings are very creative in their own way.

 

[Jdvn1]

I do have a legitimate question though ....

Why does Jdvn1 think that the FRCS is unbalanced?

Yeah, Turjan got some of it. Off the top of my head, I'd have said, "The Incantatrix, the Spell domain, and Sonic weapons."

Since you'd have asked about the Incantatrix, it's simply too good. You get full spellcasting, extra bonus feats, and get to metamagic lots of things for free. There's very little loss to make up for all the benefits.